Australian Brahmic Buddhism

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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pilgrim
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby pilgrim » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:09 am

The insistence that we all adhere to the good book may be applicable if Buddhism is a religion of faith. But it is not. We use the texts not as an item of faith but as a manual for our application.

Nyana
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Nyana » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:16 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:19 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Nyana » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:28 am


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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Nyana » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:34 am


Sylvester
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Sylvester » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:55 am

Thanks, Geoff, for your replies to my points.

I think the yardstick you applied to determine what makes a "vada" is perfectly legitimate, ie you frame the issue from the contents of its canon.

Equally legitimate would be the approach taken by "orthodox" Theravadins, that the measure is not limited to the contents of the canon, but the interpretive/exegetical understanding plays a vital role (if not even more vital, as some obviously believe) to what makes a vada. Were this not a legitimate yardstick, then it becomes meaningless to eg speak of Asanga as a Yogacarin, since his exegesis of earlier material is what makes for the character of his understanding of Yogacara.

If I grant that both frameworks have legitimacy, I can see no valid reason to artificially draw a line to keep out the text-critical approach which focusses on a limited body of the canon, whether or not the exegetical material are consulted and discussed. I don't think you would disagree on this, I hope.

Nyana
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Nyana » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:17 am


Vossaga (Element)

Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:22 am


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Vardali
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Vardali » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:52 pm

I have to admit that I am still not getting it.
What I seem to understand is that there is a scholastic argument about who takes what scriptures into account on what basis. Fair enough, it appears to me, to take different stances on that.

Then it moves into labelling these differing stances. Ok, to quote Goethe' Faust "Name ist Schall und Rauch" (= what's in a name?). And now we are moving into the territory of "if you are not/do not, you don't belong"?

Why does it matter, really, what label we carry and where differences lie,considering we are all different anyway?
Labels can be useful, if they serve a purpose. What purpose is served here?

:anjali:

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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Dmytro » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:32 pm



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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Vossaga (Element) » Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:41 pm


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vidar
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby vidar » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:28 pm

All the world is on fire, All the world is burning, All the world is ablaze, All the world is quaking. That which does not quake or blaze, That to which worldlings do not resort, Where there is no place for Mara:That is where my mind delights. (SN 5.7)

By degrees, little by little,
from moment to moment,
the wise purify themselves,
as a smith purifies silver.
—Dhammapada 239

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Dmytro
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Dmytro » Sat Mar 05, 2011 3:54 pm



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Dmytro
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Dmytro » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:11 am



Sylvester
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Sylvester » Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:41 am


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piotr
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby piotr » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:52 am

Hi,

In Sāmañña-vagga in the Nines of Aṅguttara-nikāya jhānas and formless attainments are called sandiṭṭhikanibbāna, nibbāna, parinibbāna, tadaṇganibbāna, diṭṭhadhammanibbāna with a sequel (pariyāyena). Cessation of perception and feeling is called the same (i.e. sandiṭṭhikanibbāna, etc.) but without a sequel (nippariyāyenā).
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Sylvester » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:14 am

Thank you, piotr. :anjali:

Leaves one to wonder why there is this irrational fear that "Cessation of perception and feeling" leads to rebirth as an asaññasatta.

Nyana
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Nyana » Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:46 am


Sylvester
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby Sylvester » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:02 am

As far as I can tell from Ajahn Brahm's dessanas and published works, the only "fully" non-apperceptive absorption that he mentions is Nirodha-Samapatti. And that's praised in the suttas, in contrast to the Commentarial admonitions that it leads to an asaññasatta rebirth.

All the other absorptions that he teaches are strictly in line with Anupubbanirodha schema from the suttas.

I wonder how the accusation has surreptitiously evolved from attacking Ajahn Brahm's kāmasaññanirodha teaching of 1st Jhana (as uncanonical) to become an insinuation that he teaches sabbasaññanirodha for the jhanas.

Most slippery... :juggling:

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piotr
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Re: Australian Brahmic Buddhism

Postby piotr » Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:05 am

Hi,

According to Visudhimagga (?) one can attain cessation of perception and feeling only after attaining anāgāmī or arahatta. If it's true then one won't be reborn as asaññisatta.

http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/n_ ... apatti.htm
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...


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