Richard's keynote address for the International Conference on Dissemination of Theravada Buddhism in the 21st Century held in Salaya, Bangkok, Sep/Oct 2010.
"Ven Sugandho has asked why the dissemination of Theravāda Buddhism is no longer as successful as it used to be. After all, Theravāda Buddhism is the guardian of the oldest and purest tradition of the Buddha’s message; and I believe that most of us here today consider the moral value and intellectual brilliance of that message among the very finest in the whole of human history. So if we have such a good product, why can’t we sell it?
I propose to offer answers to that question, in as much detail as I have time for. And at least you will have to agree, I think, that if there is nothing wrong with the message, there presumably may be something wrong with the messengers."
http://www.ocbs.org/index.php?option=co ... Itemid=121" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
Quite a long read, but thank you for sharing. There are truths worthy of note, especially in failure to denounce cruelty and torture, as well as failure to recognize the ignorance at work in holding to tradition and preventing ordination for women!
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
Both. Someone whose views I take very seriously.Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
Thanks for the link, Pilgrim. I'll be sure to download and read the article a little later.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725
Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global Relief • UNHCR
e: [email protected]..
-
- Posts: 1952
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
Thanks for the link- it is really excellent. I think Prof Gombrich is quite good at commenting on the social aspects of Buddhism.
With metta
Matheesha
With metta
Matheesha
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
- appicchato
- Posts: 1602
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
- Location: Bridge on the River Kwae
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
Having been there that day I was a little surprised he was saying what he did, where he did (Mahamakut Buddhist University)...his address was given in English to a gathering largely made up of about three hundred, mostly Thai, monks with no command of the language...I was wondering at the time what they would think if they understood what he was saying......failure to denounce cruelty and torture, as well as failure to recognize the ignorance at work in holding to tradition and preventing ordination for women!
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
Hello all,
A link the previous thread on Richard Gombrich:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
A link the previous thread on Richard Gombrich:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5599" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
-
- Posts: 1952
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
Clearly it was not his purpose to 'comfort' but challenge. I think he talks of the endless 'applauds' monks get and asks quite rightly 'what have you done to earn it?' Are you furthering your own practice? Are you helping with the practice of others? What is your role (other than getting fed and watered)?appicchato wrote:Having been there that day I was a little surprised he was saying what he did, where he did (Mahamakut Buddhist University)...his address was given in English to a gathering largely made up of about three hundred, mostly Thai, monks with no command of the language...I was wondering at the time what they would think if they understood what he was saying......failure to denounce cruelty and torture, as well as failure to recognize the ignorance at work in holding to tradition and preventing ordination for women!
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
Hi,
It has to be 'sell-able', and therefore has to conform to the Western mores.
Dmytro
This question explains very well the peculiarities of the Western Buddhism.pilgrim wrote:"So if we have such a good product, why can’t we sell it?"
It has to be 'sell-able', and therefore has to conform to the Western mores.
Dmytro
-
- Posts: 1952
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:29 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
I'm not sure- there is also functionality and truth- also very western attitudes!Dmytro wrote:Hi,
This question explains very well the peculiarities of the Western Buddhism.pilgrim wrote:"So if we have such a good product, why can’t we sell it?"
It has to be 'sell-able', and therefore has to conform to the Western mores.
Dmytro
Also, many westerners have the very impressed (much more than the asians that I know) about the fact that the dhamma has been given away free- without charge...quite unthinkable!
with metta
Matheesha
With Metta
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
I find Gombrich very impressive. A really excellent scholar.
It seems to me that the problem he is pointing to is related to the fact that there is a close relationship between the Theravada and the establishment in countries such as Sri Lanka and Thailand....and this precludes genuinely robust social-political engagement and gives rise to unwholesome attitudes towards what is not part of the establishment. Bhikkhu Bodhi has made a similar assertion about Sri Lanka; I think he said that in one of the lineages, unless you are born into the establishment, you cannot receive full ordination. Hence people wishing for full ordination had to go to Burma, and now there is a Burmese lineage.
It's a bit of a mystery to me how these attitudes could solidify so strongly.....
It seems to me that the problem he is pointing to is related to the fact that there is a close relationship between the Theravada and the establishment in countries such as Sri Lanka and Thailand....and this precludes genuinely robust social-political engagement and gives rise to unwholesome attitudes towards what is not part of the establishment. Bhikkhu Bodhi has made a similar assertion about Sri Lanka; I think he said that in one of the lineages, unless you are born into the establishment, you cannot receive full ordination. Hence people wishing for full ordination had to go to Burma, and now there is a Burmese lineage.
It's a bit of a mystery to me how these attitudes could solidify so strongly.....
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
I believe that Theravada which holds to tradition and orthodoxy very closely finds difficulty in engaging modern cultures with its differing expectations and norms. Modern culture is not going to change for Theravadins, so it is us who have to adapt.
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
Hi, everyone,
This is sounding more and more like the 'American Buddhist Tradition?' thread http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6709. I mentioned this one over there and no-one seemed to notice; now trying the other way round.
Kim
This is sounding more and more like the 'American Buddhist Tradition?' thread http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6709. I mentioned this one over there and no-one seemed to notice; now trying the other way round.
Kim
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
Haven't had time to listen yet but one of Ajahn Brahm's recent talks contains some comments about the address:
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/component/ ... onomy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Buddhism and Autonomy
Ajahn Brahm challenges ideas about autonomy and freedom, and about knowledge and faith, in Buddhism and in other religions.
Ajahn refers to Richard Gombrich's keynote address 'Comfort or Challenge?' for the International Conference on Dissemination of Theravada Buddhism in the 21st Century, held in Salaya, Bangkok, Sep/Oct 2010. Click here for the text of the address.
Professor Richard Gombrich is chairman of The Oxford Centre for Buddhist Studies.
Mike
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/component/ ... onomy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Buddhism and Autonomy
Ajahn Brahm challenges ideas about autonomy and freedom, and about knowledge and faith, in Buddhism and in other religions.
Ajahn refers to Richard Gombrich's keynote address 'Comfort or Challenge?' for the International Conference on Dissemination of Theravada Buddhism in the 21st Century, held in Salaya, Bangkok, Sep/Oct 2010. Click here for the text of the address.
Professor Richard Gombrich is chairman of The Oxford Centre for Buddhist Studies.
Mike
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
Thanks for posting Mike. A very timely topic for me at present. Appreciated.mikenz66 wrote:Haven't had time to listen yet but one of Ajahn Brahm's recent talks contains some comments about the address:
http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/component/ ... onomy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Buddhism and Autonomy
Ajahn Brahm challenges ideas about autonomy and freedom, and about knowledge and faith, in Buddhism and in other religions.
Ajahn refers to Richard Gombrich's keynote address 'Comfort or Challenge?' for the International Conference on Dissemination of Theravada Buddhism in the 21st Century, held in Salaya, Bangkok, Sep/Oct 2010. Click here for the text of the address.
Professor Richard Gombrich is chairman of The Oxford Centre for Buddhist Studies.
Mike
Re: Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge
The discussion of Gombrich is at about 50 minutes. Ajahn Brahm expresses agreement with Gombrich's concerns (even though Gombrich is from Oxford, not Cambridge ).
Mike
Mike