Why we pay homage to Buddha?

Exploring modern Theravāda interpretations of the Buddha's teaching.
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ganegaar
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Re: Why we pay homage to Buddha?

Postby ganegaar » Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:49 am

SarathW wrote:Very interesting thoughts Whynotime.
Coming back to the topic I just start to wonder whether homage is about seniority and customs.
For example a newly ordained monk should bow down to senior monk.
Any female monk should bow down to any male monk irrespective of seniority.


The examples you have quoted does not match the original question. These examples are monastic rules intended to facilitate a harmonious environment, by simply avoiding any sort of conflicts that may arise due to seniority or gender!. One might argue a gender discrimination here, but consider the fact with this rule that an arahant might be paying respect to a non-arahant monk as well !., so the intention of Buddha here is clear, just avoid any seniority conflict at its root!
Sīlepatiṭṭhāya naro sapañño, cittaṃ paññañca bhāvayaṃ;
Ātāpī nipako bhikkhu, so imaṃ vijaṭaye jaṭanti.

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ganegaar
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Re: Why we pay homage to Buddha?

Postby ganegaar » Mon Dec 26, 2016 6:33 pm

I just start to wonder whether homage is about seniority and customs

When contemplating for myself, why I pay homage to Buddha ( and dhamma and sangha), I realized another aspect that should be mentioned. It is rather "how do we pay homage". We recite a set of verses when paying homage, when done with mindful understanding may lead to a wonderful insight.

One such verse (among many) to further clarify this post is:
Pujemi Buddham - I offer to Buddha
Kusumen nena - these flowers
Punnena metena labhami mokham - of that merit (of offering flowers), may I realize nibbana
Puppham milayati - (flowers) bloom and then fades away,
Yatha Idam me Kayo tathayati vinasa bhavam - just so my body would go into destruction.

Hope we all would see through these words and see a different perspective of paying homage.
Sīlepatiṭṭhāya naro sapañño, cittaṃ paññañca bhāvayaṃ;
Ātāpī nipako bhikkhu, so imaṃ vijaṭaye jaṭanti.

gben
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Re: Why we pay homage to Buddha?

Postby gben » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:34 am

If a buddhist or a school of buddhism pays homage to the Buddha or teaches others to then they are not actually buddhists or buddhist schools.

Currently most buddhism and most buddhist teachers and teachings are either very far from what Buddhism actually is or completely not necessary.

Just as modern Christianity has almost nothing to do with who or what Jesus of Nazareth was. Delusional men through the centuries have splintered Buddhism into many pieces at their will, men have turned Buddhism into hierarchies and into businesses and a livelihood.

Buddhas are not here to be worshiped, they are here to free you, worship, homage and other rituals and ceremonies are a waste of time, they are things put together by men not Buddhas.

The word "Buddhism" itself is actually useless beyond being a label for the phenomenon it names. The best thing to do is what the original Buddha did, throw out all the things non-Buddhas are doing and find yourself by relaxing and watching yourself. When you gain actual self-knowledge, when you see what you are then you are as much a Buddha as there ever was.

You are simply a part of life hosting the phenomenon of thought. Figure out what that means and you are free.

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Coëmgenu
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Re: Why we pay homage to Buddha?

Postby Coëmgenu » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:37 am

gben wrote:If a buddhist or a school of buddhism pays homage to the Buddha or teaches others to then they are not actually buddhists or buddhist schools.
Congratulations! By the standard you set forth here only a handful of Western converts are actual Buddhists. Similarly, no extant tradition of Buddhism is authentic/"actual" by your metric.

Makes me feel special to be one of the only Buddhists. Little did these non-Buddhist people before us know that the secret to being Buddhist was actually just being a secular humanist all along.

gben wrote:Just as modern Christianity has almost nothing to do with who or what Jesus of Nazareth was.
Do you have a source for this?

gben wrote:Buddhas are not here to be worshiped, they are here to free you, worship, homage and other rituals and ceremonies are a waste of time, they are things put together by men not Buddhas.
It is well-established in the Pāli Buddhavacana that neither worship, homage, nor rituals, are innately bad or evil things in and of themselves.

The Buddha was not a Protestant Christian. He gives several rituals to this followers which are practices to this day, such as Buddhist meditation.
Last edited by Coëmgenu on Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bhagavā arahaṃ sammasāmbuddho:
Svākkhāto yena bhagavatā dhammo / Supaṭipanno yassa bhagavato sāvakasaṅgho
Tammayaṃ bhagavantaṃ sadhammaṃ sasaṅghaṃ / Imehi sakkārehi yathārahaṃ āropitehi abhipūjayāma.
(Dedication of Offerings)
此等諸法,法住、法空、法如、法爾,法不離如,法不異如,審諦真實、不顛倒。These many dharmāḥ, the residence of these dharmāḥ, the emptiness of these dharmāḥ, these dharmāḥ self-explain, these dharmāḥ are thus, these dharmāḥ do not depart from their self-explaining, these dharmāḥ are not different than their self-explaining, judged as truly real, not delusional. (SA 296, 因緣法)
揭諦揭諦,波羅揭諦,波羅僧揭諦,菩提薩婆訶

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Mkoll
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Re: Why we pay homage to Buddha?

Postby Mkoll » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:40 am

Coëmgenu wrote:
gben wrote:If a buddhist or a school of buddhism pays homage to the Buddha or teaches others to then they are not actually buddhists or buddhist schools.
Congratulations! By the standard you set forth here only a handful of Western converts are actual Buddhists. Similarly, no extant tradition of Buddhism is authentic/"actual" by your metric.

Makes me feel special to be one of the only Buddhists. Little did these non-Buddhist people before us know that the secret to being Buddhist was actually just being a secular humanist all along.

Didn't you know, gben is a "buddha."

viewtopic.php?t=20569

:shock:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa


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