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A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma" - Page 19 - Dhamma Wheel

A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Exploring modern Theravāda interpretations of the Buddha's teaching.
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SDC
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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby SDC » Fri Sep 11, 2015 6:10 pm

Could it be said that holding to a 'top-down' arrangement (of the particulars below the universal) shows the particulars as being because of or even for the universal?

pulga
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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby pulga » Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:51 pm


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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby SDC » Sat Sep 12, 2015 4:00 pm

Groovy post, pulga. Thanks.

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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby SDC » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:57 pm


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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:29 pm


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acinteyyo
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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Sep 17, 2015 5:49 am

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:08 am

On the other hand, the Buddha, being an excellent teacher, always addressed people at the appropriate level and often spoke about beings being reborn. I think that was what Nāgasena was doing here. I certainly see no evidence, reading the entire section, that he misunderstood. One might just as easily criticise the Buddha himself for mentioning beings in his discussion of kamma and rebirth in and .

:anjali:
Mike

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acinteyyo
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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:43 am

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:09 am

Perhaps your objection is that Nagasena is mixing up conventional and ultimate descriptions. Is that correct? On the other hand, your (and Nanavira's) objections may have more to do with how the passage has been translated. It may be that "deeds are done by this mind and matter" is an awkward translation.

I still don't personally see a fundamental difference between this exchange and the Sati admonition. In that case it was consciousness, rather than nama-rupa, that was spoken about arising in a different life. But I guess that reading also contradicts the Nanavira interpretation.

How about the many suttas where the Buddha speaks of beings being reborn according to their kamma. Would Nanavira criticise those too?

:anjali:
Mike

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acinteyyo
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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:40 am

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 7:04 pm


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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:32 pm

Mike, could you please point out where this quote of mine is to be found? I would like to check the context first before I respond.
I get the feeling that we are talking at crosspurposes.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:50 pm


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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby acinteyyo » Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:42 am

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 8:35 am


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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby acinteyyo » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:12 am

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:06 pm

I do see some merit in this argument, but I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree on the relative merits of the opinions of the Theras under discussion...

It's all very well to call it an invalid question, but the Buddha did speak of being being literally reborn, and to me the answers are about how (selfless) conditionality carries on from life to life. Clearly, there are different ways of interpreting such things.

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby acinteyyo » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:04 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīra's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby daverupa » Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:20 pm

:goodpost:

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Re: A Review of Ven. Ñānavīr a's "Notes on Dhamma"

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:46 pm



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