"Attending" to objects.

On the cultivation of insight/wisdom
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Zenainder
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"Attending" to objects.

Postby Zenainder » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:46 am

Good morning forum!

In developing insight in the practice as phenomenon rise and cease I have been taught to attend to it using the "noting / mantra" device as a means of making an objective awareness of the object arising. I have become aware of the impermance presented in the rising and falling of phenomenon, however when developing insight and attending to objects as they arise how is discernment to see the sequence from which it is arising from procured?

For instance a feeling of frustration (dissatisfaction) with friend A arises: logistically I can state that it rises sequentially suffering -> ... -> nama-rupa (I am still understanding beyond nama-rupa (consciousness, etc). However, in my meditation practice in regards to my disatisfaction with friend A upon attending to it objectively how am I able to pierce and attain insight that the dissatisfaction ultimately arises from ignorance and unfetter myself from it? In other words, logistically one can state any fact, but empirically one does not know it (does that make sense?).

Currently, and perhaps right concentration & view still need to be developed further, there seems to be a fine line in attending to my objects and falling prey to unmindful engagement. Also, what arises often can cease rather quickly in my mindfulness practice:

In breath, out breath, dissatisfaction with friend A arises, disliking, disliking, disliking, dissatisfaction with friend A ceases, in breath, out breath... etc. I recognize that what arises always ceases, but where and how in the practice does one attend and contemplate objects objectively and insightfully --- ultimately discerning the sequence in which it arises? In the end, how is the dhamma properly observed? How is it that the sequence from which suffering arises from observed in practice?

Metta,

Zen
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daverupa
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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby daverupa » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:09 pm

I'm confused; it seems you describe mindfully attending to the process, and then you ask how to mindfully attend to the process...

I'm not sure thinking in terms of "unfetter myself" is really the way to go; as we can read in , the process as diagnosed with the four truths is the proper thing to which one ought to attend, not how one or another sort of self interacts with things. But it can be via conceit that we transcend conceit, so there will be a difference between individual methods here.

Ultimately, jhana is required, but the groundwork must be laid. Maybe there is also arisen impatience?

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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby Zenainder » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:34 pm

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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby Spiny Norman » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:45 pm

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

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Zenainder
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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby Zenainder » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:59 pm

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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby Zenainder » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:06 pm

Perhaps this will bring more clarity as to what I am hoping to understand when it regards "insight":

1. How is it defined?
2. Explicate how it dawns?
For instance: mindfulness meditation-> phenomenon rising and ceasing -> pattern recognition over time -> ???
3. Correct me if I am wrong, and this may relate directly with how question #1 is answered, but isn't insight directly related to catching glimpses of dhamma?
4. My other intention is assistance in seeing the sequence of how phenomenon rise, relating to dependent origination and its formula in my practice. I find the teachings agreeable and have, in part, observed at the surface that they are true, but how does one go deeper?

I feel that these questions are all inter-related, if any feels otherwise please articulate so and remain focused on how to develop insight (remaining respectful of the purpose of the forum). :)
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daverupa
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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby daverupa » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:46 pm


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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby Zenainder » Fri Jun 14, 2013 4:32 pm

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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:55 pm

Hi Zenainder,

It sounds to me like you are doing fine. But developing insight is a long-term project. Keep practising, and keep reading/listening and see if what you read/listen to relates to what your practice reveals. You might fine the quotes from Mahasi Sayadaw and Bhikkhu Nananada here: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 36#p249336 useful.

:anjali:
Mike

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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby pegembara » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:31 am

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby Zenainder » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:53 am

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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby Zenainder » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:55 am

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Re: "Attending" to objects.

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:46 pm



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