alan... wrote:most teachers teach "bare mindfulness" but where and when do we do the rest of insight? contemplating vanishing/arising/eternally/internally/etc.?
There are certain special qualities connected with
mindfulness in insight meditation. First, it is not thinking.
We do not think, we just observe. It does not mean that during
a retreat, we do not think at all. We still think, but we are
mindful of the thinking. However, in the actual meditation
exercise, the thinking is put aside, and the mind with
concentrated awareness observes without thinking. Secondly,
when we are without thinking, the mind is kept to the present
or present occurrences. We do not go to the past or the future.
We keep the mind in the so-called present and know what is
happening to our meditation object. When we can do that,
then our mindfulness is concentrated precisely on what is
happening to our meditation object.
THE IMPORTANCE OF NOTING INTENTION
The third thing you must not leave out—concerning mindfulness of
consciousness and mental states—is the aspect of intentions. Before
every action, an intention must arise. For example, after sitting for
some time, you might like to get up and walk. The mind will have
the intention to walk. It will tell you, “Get up and walk! You have
sat long enough.” After walking, you know it is time to sit, so the
mind will say, “Go and sit.” Because of the compulsion of the
intention to sit, you go and sit. Similarly for all other actions—the
intention to eat, the intention to drink, the intention to answer the
calls of nature, the intention to sleep, the intention to talk and so
forth—they will arise followed by the action.
Many of these intentions arise every day and they go about
unnoticed. If you can mindfully note all of the intentions that arise,
you will also be mindful of the action that follows. We start by taking
note of the major intentions connected with the four major postures—
walking, sitting, lying down and standing up. They usually occur
between each of these four major postures. If you can take note of
that then you can further extend your practice by taking note of the
intentions prior to the minor postures such as bending, stretching,
turning the head and so forth.
One way is to tell yourself, “I will not get up until I am able to
observe the intention to get up,” or “I will not sit until I am able to
watch the intention to sit.” If you can do that eventually the intention
will become very strong and you will be able to observe it. It comes
more like a strong urge, a strong desire, or a strong wish. One good
example is when there is a lot of pain and you really want to move
but you decide not to. Then the mind will tell you, “Move, move,
move! What is the use of sitting any more? Who do you think you
are? Are you trying to be a hero? You can be more mindful if you
move to another posture.” Then tell yourself, “Ah! That is the
intention to move, the intention to get up.” Take a good look at it.
Then, if necessary, move. Likewise, possibly, with the intention to
sleep when you first wake up in the morning and want just to stay
Once you have started getting hold of intentions, you find that
the mind actually has a life of its own. You think you are controlling
the mind but the mind is controlling you more than you are
controlling it. If a person is not mindful, he acts largely on impulses.
He is not aware of his actions. That is why things like addictions
IanAnd wrote:Yet, in order to develop progress in one's recognition and realization of the truths of the Dhamma, one needs to do contemplation. Especially the kind of contemplation espoused in the Satipatthana suttas, as those discourses detail how to go about examining and monitoring the mind and its movement. When you are able to catch the mind in an unwholesome movement and are able to preempt it and eventually eliminate it, you stand ready to diminish your own experience of dukkha! And since Gotama declared many times that it was the cessation of dukkha that was his main concern ("Formerly and also now, I make known only dukkha and the cessation of dukkha." — SN 22.86), you cannot go wrong.
purple planet wrote:So to make it clearer - as i read in a mahasi pdf book "practical vipassana exercises" he says not to think about anything and you will undertand automaticly
He knows the mind and mental objects, and the fetter that arises dependent on both; he knows how the arising of the non-arisen fetter comes to be; he knows how the abandoning of the arisen fetter comes to be; and he knows how the non-arising in the future of the abandoned fetter comes to be.
" also notice this reflection if they occur , but he should not dwell on them"
- which means that even when this reflection rise we should just "note" them and that this reflections will come even without trying to "raise" them - am i right ?"bare mindfulness"
mikenz66 wrote:Hi Alan,alan... wrote:most teachers teach "bare mindfulness" but where and when do we do the rest of insight? contemplating vanishing/arising/eternally/internally/etc.?
I'm puzzled, since the Buddhist teachers I have paid attention to do teach those things. Probably not in their initial instructions, of course.
See, for example:
Ven Sujiva. Essentials of Insight Meditation Practice.
Retreat recordings by Patrick Kearney:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... index.html
mikenz66 wrote:The Satipatthana Sutta has this to say about thinking:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nysa.htmlHe knows the mind and mental objects, and the fetter that arises dependent on both; he knows how the arising of the non-arisen fetter comes to be; he knows how the abandoning of the arisen fetter comes to be; and he knows how the non-arising in the future of the abandoned fetter comes to be.
purple planet wrote:sorry i cant copy paste - its pages 26 to 28 - a small part of what he says :" also notice this reflection if they occur , but he should not dwell on them"
it is said to be aware of everything just not to think about the "reflections" about reality but just to "note" them
- i understood this question as if should we contemplate/think about reality ? -and i guess the answer is no we should not it will come autiomaticly and this is what alan means (i think) by saying- which means that even when this reflection rise we should just "note" them and that this reflections will come even without trying to "raise" them - am i right ?"bare mindfulness"
a random person doing the same exercises with no knowledge of the suttas or dhamma whatsoever but only of mindfulness techniques wouldn't "know" any of this stuff.
well what i'm saying is i spent years doing only mindfulness and concentration without knowing how to attempt to develop wisdom through cognition. my mind becam VERY calm and collected, but this alone brings nothing. imagine someone being taught only these two things (how to be mindful and how to calm the mind during meditation) and literally nothing else on the dhamma, i don't think it would get them very far.
alan... wrote:okay so can you just tell me please? all my readings seem to imply we should just be mindful and note and then drop everything that comes to mind but the satipatthana sutta says to contemplate arising/vanishing/etc., i read a commentary that says it's sequential, first the practitioner contemplates body as body, then once that's solid they contemplate arising/vanishing, then once they get it they can just do bare attention. but a lot of teachers teach to start off with bare attention.
alan... wrote:basically, when are we supposed to consider things about reality and when are we supposed to just drop thoughts for non thinking mindfulness?
I think the communication problem I am having with you and PP is your equating of "knowing" with "thinking". Thinking is about concepts.
so you are actually saying by my understanding here that "knowing"/"seeing" is enough and there is no need to thinkthinking about intention" it's "knowing intention"
purple planet wrote:so you are actually saying by my understanding here that "knowing"/"seeing" is enough and there is no need to think
purple planet wrote:but if i will note that thinking it will go away