Fine, but you are still quite wrong about Goenka.Mr Man wrote:Well I never even mentioned Mahasi Sayadaw.tiltbillings wrote:If you are saying that Goenka or Mahasi Sayadaw are out of line with the Theravada and the teachings of the Buddha, then yes, you have said something quite incorrect.Mr Man wrote: With respect Tilt I think you really need to go back and read over what I actually said. Have I said something that is not correct?
vipassana craziness
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Re: vipassana craziness
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: vipassana craziness
Mr Man wrote:The format and technique do not come from the suttas.
even hardline Sutta-based teachers like Taan Geoff say that Goenkas sweeping techniques are in line with the Buddhas approach to meditation... ardency, mindfulness and alertness. although i dont know much about the format and theories, or anything beyond the technique it self.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... part2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"In a "scanning" or "body sweep" practice, mindfulness means remembering to stick with the process of scanning the body, while alertness would mean seeing the subtle sensations of the body being scanned. Ardency would mean sticking with the scanning process and trying to be ever more sensitive to the subtlest sensations. As in the previous case, these activities are related to factors of jhāna, and the process, if conducted in line with the texts, should culminate in a state of full-bodied singleness, at which time the motion of the scanning can be brought to stillness, and the mind can enter deeper concentration."
"It's easy for us to connect with what's wrong with us... and not so easy to feel into, or to allow us, to connect with what's right and what's good in us."
Re: vipassana craziness
Wrong about what?tiltbillings wrote:Fine, but you are still quite wrong about Goenka.
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Re: vipassana craziness
That Goenka is not in line with Theravada and not in line with the Buddha's teachings.MM wrote:Wrong about what?tilt wrote:Fine, but you are still quite wrong about Goenka.Mr Man wrote: Well I never even mentioned Mahasi Sayadaw.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: vipassana craziness
Okay. I don't think that the Buddha taught the "technique" and format that is used by Goenka, which is not a problem in and of itself. I don't think Goenka's organization can be considered to be mainstream Theravada. It is it's own little subgroup to my mind. And more distinct than many of the other subgroupstiltbillings wrote:That Goenka is not in line with Theravada and not in line with the Buddha's teachings.
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Re: vipassana craziness
To your mind.Mr Man wrote:Okay. I don't think that the Buddha taught the "technique" and format that is used by Goenka, which is not a problem in and of itself. I don't think Goenka's organization can be considered to be mainstream Theravada. It is it's own little subgroup to my mind. And more distinct than many of the other subgroupstiltbillings wrote:That Goenka is not in line with Theravada and not in line with the Buddha's teachings.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: vipassana craziness
Tilt, do you think the Buddha taught the "technique"?
To support my view that Goenka's organization is not mainstream Theravada have a look at their website:
http://www.dhamma.org/en/goenka.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dhamma.org/en/vipassana.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Do you think Goenkaji perceives his organization to be part of the wider Theravada community?
To support my view that Goenka's organization is not mainstream Theravada have a look at their website:
http://www.dhamma.org/en/goenka.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dhamma.org/en/vipassana.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Do you think Goenkaji perceives his organization to be part of the wider Theravada community?
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Re: vipassana craziness
The Buddha taught no technique, which is why there are various differing techniques developed to put the Buddha's teachings into practice.Mr Man wrote:Tilt, do you think the Buddha taught the "technique"?
And who are you trying to convince here?To support my view that Goenka's organization is not mainstream Theravada have a look at their website:
http://www.dhamma.org/en/goenka.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.dhamma.org/en/vipassana.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You will have to ask him, but I would say that he fits in.Do you think Goenkaji perceives his organization to be part of the wider Theravada community?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: vipassana craziness
Ahh so you agree with me?tiltbillings wrote:The Buddha taught no technique
I'm not trying to convince anyone.And who are you trying to convince here?
Well in my experience the organization does not embrace it. I've heard the students are not encouraged to sit with practioners from outside their tradition + or visit instutions from outside their tradition.You will have to ask him, but I would say that he fits in.
Tilt are you a student of Goenka?
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Re: vipassana craziness
It is an interesting question as to what the Buddha taught. Every teacher, or every "independent" practitioner, is going to develop their own, or adopt and adapt other peoples', techniques in response to what they understand the Buddha's teachings to be.Mr Man wrote:Ahh so you agree with me?tiltbillings wrote:The Buddha taught no technique
[
Yes and no, but the Goenka and his organization has done a great promote Theravada. http://www.pariyatti.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Well in my experience the organization does not embrace it. I've heard the students are not encouraged to sit with practioners from outside their tradition + or visit instutions from outside their tradition.You will have to ask him, but I would say that he fits in.
Nope, but I know people who are.Tilt are you a student of Goenka?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Re: vipassana craziness
I use a comfy chair these days, it's much more practical.DAWN wrote:Actually, IMO , in long meditation sitting, it's not a mental activity, but a bodily pain what is realy difficult.
Buddha save me from new-agers!
Re: vipassana craziness
On that note:tiltbillings wrote:It is an interesting question as to what the Buddha taught. Every teacher, or every "independent" practitioner, is going to develop their own, or adopt and adapt other peoples', techniques in response to what they understand the Buddha's teachings to be.
MN 101 wrote:And how is striving fruitful, how is exertion fruitful? There is the case where a monk, when not loaded down, does not load himself down with pain, nor does he reject pleasure that accords with the Dhamma, although he is not fixated on that pleasure. He discerns that 'When I exert a [physical, verbal, or mental] fabrication against this cause of stress, then from the fabrication of exertion there is dispassion. When I look on with equanimity at that cause of stress, then from the development of equanimity there is dispassion.' So he exerts a fabrication against the cause of stress where there comes dispassion from the fabrication of exertion, and develops equanimity with regard to the cause of stress where there comes dispassion from the development of equanimity. Thus the stress coming from the cause of stress for which there is dispassion through the fabrication of exertion is exhausted & the stress resulting from the cause of stress for which there is dispassion through the development of equanimity is exhausted.
MN 57 wrote:"What is neither-dark-nor-bright kamma with neither-dark-nor-bright ripening that leads to the exhaustion of kamma? As to these (three kinds of kamma), any volition in abandoning the kind of kamma that is dark with dark ripening, any volition in abandoning the kind of kamma that is bright with bright ripening, and any volition in abandoning the kind of kamma that is dark-and bright with dark-and-bright ripening: this is called neither-dark-nor-bright kamma with neither-dark-nor-bright ripening.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: vipassana craziness
It will be worth the effort to look at the Pali of this and other translations.So he exerts a fabrication against
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: vipassana craziness
From you link I saw John Coleman has died, which is sad news.tiltbillings wrote:Goenka and his organization has done a great promote Theravada. http://www.pariyatti.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.imcitalia.it/
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Re: vipassana craziness
It is sad. Also, I hoped that you saw something else from that link.Mr Man wrote:From you link I saw John Coleman has died, which is sad news.tiltbillings wrote:Goenka and his organization has done a great promote Theravada. http://www.pariyatti.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.imcitalia.it/
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723