Jhāna According to the Pāḷi Nikāyas

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
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darvki
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Re: Jhāna According to the Pāḷi Nikāyas

Post by darvki »

rowyourboat wrote:I think it is weakness of Buddhism that it is tolerant and 'anything goes' attitude is allowed to ferment, often at the cost of the teachings becoming something other than what was intended. Historically it has been shown that this is one of the leading causes of destruction of Buddhism in lands where it existed previously.

It is indeed an unfortunate dynamic that has emerged within Buddhism. I myself am not familiar with the historical context involving the dhamma's dying out in various regions, but I have witnessed it for sure on a smaller scale. However, I cannot agree that my views fall under an "anything goes" attitude.
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Moth
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Downplaying Jhana

Post by Moth »

Why do you think so many teachers downplay Jhana? I've so often been given the impression that Jhana is inessential. At the same time Jhana is so often recommend by the Buddha in the Suttas.
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cooran
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Re: Downplaying Jhana

Post by cooran »

Hello moth,

As this is the meditation (general) section, can you post some of the 'downplays' and some of the Suttas that you are referring to please?

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manas
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Re: Downplaying Jhana

Post by manas »

Moth wrote:Why do you think so many teachers downplay Jhana? I've so often been given the impression that Jhana is inessential. At the same time Jhana is so often recommend by the Buddha in the Suttas.
Hi Moth,

the Buddha does more than just 'recommend' jhana. The four jhanas constitute 'limb number eight' of the Noble Eightfold Path! We are supposed to develop sammasamadhi, just like all the other limbs of the Path. As for some teachers downplaying jhana, well none of mine do that, so I cannot comment on that issue.

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Re: Downplaying Jhana

Post by befriend »

i agree buddha taught jhana, why is it so uncommon nowadays?
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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Downplaying Jhana

Post by Modus.Ponens »

Because these teachers' conception of jhana is something different from what the Buddha actualy thaught. They think it's an even more absorbed state where the senses are shut down and there is no possibility of doing vipassana while in these states. Unsurprisingly, they think these more absorbed states are relatively useless and that there is the danger of one geting lost in doing this type of "jhana" the rest of their lives without striving for liberation.

For a really good thread on the nature of jhana see (at least the first page of) this: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 761#p89675" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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Alex123
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Re: Downplaying Jhana

Post by Alex123 »

Moth wrote:Why do you think so many teachers downplay Jhana? I've so often been given the impression that Jhana is inessential. At the same time Jhana is so often recommend by the Buddha in the Suttas.
Jhāna is listed as 8th factor of N8P. There are 7 factors that needs to be accomplished prior to Jhāna as part of sammā-samādhi.

Furthermore:
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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Downplaying Jhana

Post by Modus.Ponens »

That doesn't make much sense Alex. I would be very curious to see where is that stated in the suttas, but in another thread.
'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' - Jhana Sutta
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tiltbillings
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Re: Downplaying Jhana

Post by tiltbillings »

It all depends upon what is meant by jhana.

This whole thread, not just the first pages are worth looking at:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 761#p89675" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, this thread does not need to be duplicated here.
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Ben
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Re: Downplaying Jhana

Post by Ben »

tiltbillings wrote:Also, this thread does not need to be duplicated here.
I agree.
This thread will be locked. So please join the discussion in the linked thread above.
The two threads will be merged shortly.
kind regards,

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Gena1480
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Re: Jhāna According to the Pāḷi Nikāyas

Post by Gena1480 »

this is my understanding
those who follow the 8 noble path
develop Jhana as requirement for steam entry
then they attain the stream entry with instant without Jhana because it has been attain before.
those who attain supramundane Jhana, right away attain Jhana and stream entry
those who do not follow 8 noble path but attain Jhana, does not attain stream entry
thats about it.
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Spiny O'Norman
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Re: Downplaying Jhana

Post by Spiny O'Norman »

manasikara wrote:..the Buddha does more than just 'recommend' jhana. The four jhanas constitute 'limb number eight' of the Noble Eightfold Path! We are supposed to develop sammasamadhi, just like all the other limbs of the Path. As for some teachers downplaying jhana, well none of mine do that, so I cannot comment on that issue.
That's the way I understand it. I'm also puzzled by the way some teachers regard jhana as a distraction rather than an essential aspect of practice.

Spiny
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tiltbillings
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Re: Downplaying Jhana

Post by tiltbillings »

Spiny O'Norman wrote:
manasikara wrote:..the Buddha does more than just 'recommend' jhana. The four jhanas constitute 'limb number eight' of the Noble Eightfold Path! We are supposed to develop sammasamadhi, just like all the other limbs of the Path. As for some teachers downplaying jhana, well none of mine do that, so I cannot comment on that issue.
That's the way I understand it. I'm also puzzled by the way some teachers regard jhana as a distraction rather than an essential aspect of practice.

Spiny
No need to be vague here. What teachers and what do they say?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Gena1480
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Re: Jhāna According to the Pāḷi Nikāyas

Post by Gena1480 »

according to some suttas
there is attaining of stream entry
without Jhana completely
i would put this in category
of faith follower
and dry insight
i do not see how this, is actually done.
Brizzy
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Re: Jhāna According to the Pāḷi Nikāyas

Post by Brizzy »

Gena1480 wrote:according to some suttas
there is attaining of stream entry
without Jhana completely
i would put this in category
of faith follower
and dry insight
i do not see how this, is actually done.
By stream entry, do you mean the fruition?
Which sutta actually says that there is an attainment of stream entry without jhana?

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