I'm looking for a book that is written with the Pali Canon considered as authoritative (ie not a Mahayana or Vajrayana teacher) that uses the breath to enter jhana and does not use visual nimittas but has one stay only with the breath. Is there one around?
Further info:
If one looks at the suttas, Patisambhidamagga and Vimuttimagga one will see instructions in great detail on how to use mindfulness of breathing to enter jhana and these instructions do not mention making use of visual nimitta but rather use tactile nimitta and, in the case of the Patisambhidamagga and Vimuttimagga, instruct one to ignore all images and stay with the tactile breath nimitta (still a nimitta, just not a visual one). It gets a little confusing because some authors translate "nimitta" as "image". However from what I can tell the most accurate translation would be "sign" because "nimitta" does not always have a visual connotation, or to just leave it untranslated would work as well.
I am looking for a book that explains this practice from the early Theravada tradition and Pali Canon in great detail.
Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
Re: Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
Yes. The Art and Skill of Buddhist Meditation by Richard Shankman. It's excellent.
https://www.newharbinger.com/art-and-sk ... meditation
https://www.newharbinger.com/art-and-sk ... meditation
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
Here is a series of videos from the author which cover each chapter from the book:
Part 1.
https://youtu.be/AvgivILL7rQ
Part 1.
https://youtu.be/AvgivILL7rQ
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
Can you quote a sutta with such suggestions for entering jhana ? As far as I know, suttas say directing the mind towards the deathless is the way of achieving jhana.
https://suttacentral.net/en/mn64
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
https://suttacentral.net/en/mn64
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Re: Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
I thought I posted this already, now I'm wondering if it's posted somewhere else and looks silly for being out of place or if I just accidentally didn't post it at all!bodom wrote:Yes. The Art and Skill of Buddhist Meditation by Richard Shankman. It's excellent.
https://www.newharbinger.com/art-and-sk ... meditation
Thanks! I loved his book "The Experience of Samadhi". Are the jhanas he teaches deep or shallow like Leigh Brasingtons? I had been mostly convinced that jhana is a more shallow experience by the writings of Leigh Brasington until I read an excerpt of "From Grasping to Emptiness" by Analayo where he quotes suttas which point to jhana being deep and states of absorption. I hadn't known of those suttas before so now I am looking for explanations of jhana that lean toward this information.
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
Re: Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
My various sources (teachers, readings, sorry can't point to any in particular) indicate this too. The sensation attended to at the outer-nostrils/upper lip is consider a "touch" / "tactile" sensation, and touch is given special status (this may be from the Visuddhimagga): it's a combination of earth, fire, and wind elements (mahadhatu). It’s different from the other "external" senses in that, as in this case, it can be "proprioception", i.e. in a way the body sensing itself, rather than something wholly external.zan wrote:...but rather use tactile nimitta ...
The touch of breath at the that place is also very subtle, in line with the frequently used term "fine-material" as translation of "rupa". I've also heard that the standard Mahasi intro instruction of attending to the breath in terms of the rising and falling at the abdomen is less subtle, hence more suitable for vipassana-oriented use; it's in fact not suited for pursuing jhana absorption because it's relatively gross.
(Btw: In my experience with Mahasi monks teaching their system, they don't mind if the student uses the nostril technique, nor if they use jhana (assuming in both cases that the student develops it correctly), as long as the it all leads to vipassana.)
Likewise in agreement. "Nimitta" has much broader uses in the Pali Canon, e.g. in the final passages of the Visuddhimagga, "signlessness" (animitta – free of sign-making) and "non-originating" (I forget the Pali) are described as key features of approaching final attainment.zan wrote:...the most accurate translation would be "sign" ...
Re: Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
Shankman's book is valuable, especially the interviews in the second part where a range of perspectives is presented by a range of "experts", including Thanissaro, and Pa Auk Sayadaw, as well as rather constrasting views from Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg, etc.zan wrote: [Richard Shankman's] ..."The Experience of Samadhi". Are the jhanas he teaches deep or shallow like Leigh Brasingtons? I had been mostly convinced that jhana is a more shallow experience by the writings of Leigh Brasington until I read an excerpt of "From Grasping to Emptiness" by Analayo where he quotes suttas which point to jhana being deep and states of absorption. I hadn't known of those suttas before so now I am looking for explanations of jhana that lean toward this information.
On the other hand, I attended a day-long talk (and "book-signing" event) by Shankman shortly after the book's release (I have an autographed copy!), and in the guided meditations he used that day, my impression was that he was using a form of "jhana-lite" (more like Leigh Brasington, or B. Vimalaramsi, Bodhipaska, etc.).
That was, however, 8 years ago, and his practice and teaching may well have further evolved since then.
Re: Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
Thank you. I read a little of what you were saying in another thread about Mahasi Sayadaw having used the term "Vipassana Jhana" and found that quite interesting. It is good to know that he and other teachers are comfortable with jhana and nostril attention. It's interesting that the Visuddhimagga mentions tactile nimitta but teaches visual nimitta with anapanasati.cjmacie wrote:My various sources (teachers, readings, sorry can't point to any in particular) indicate this too. The sensation attended to at the outer-nostrils/upper lip is consider a "touch" / "tactile" sensation, and touch is given special status (this may be from the Visuddhimagga): it's a combination of earth, fire, and wind elements (mahadhatu). It’s different from the other "external" senses in that, as in this case, it can be "proprioception", i.e. in a way the body sensing itself, rather than something wholly external.zan wrote:...but rather use tactile nimitta ...
The touch of breath at the that place is also very subtle, in line with the frequently used term "fine-material" as translation of "rupa". I've also heard that the standard Mahasi intro instruction of attending to the breath in terms of the rising and falling at the abdomen is less subtle, hence more suitable for vipassana-oriented use; it's in fact not suited for pursuing jhana absorption because it's relatively gross.
(Btw: In my experience with Mahasi monks teaching their system, they don't mind if the student uses the nostril technique, nor if they use jhana (assuming in both cases that the student develops it correctly), as long as the it all leads to vipassana.)
Likewise in agreement. "Nimitta" has much broader uses in the Pali Canon, e.g. in the final passages of the Visuddhimagga, "signlessness" (animitta – free of sign-making) and "non-originating" (I forget the Pali) are described as key features of approaching final attainment.zan wrote:...the most accurate translation would be "sign" ...
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
Re: Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
Have you read his book "The Art and Skill of Buddhist Meditation"? If so does the way he teaches jhana in it seem shallow as well?cjmacie wrote:Shankman's book is valuable, especially the interviews in the second part where a range of perspectives is presented by a range of "experts", including Thanissaro, and Pa Auk Sayadaw, as well as rather constrasting views from Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg, etc.zan wrote: [Richard Shankman's] ..."The Experience of Samadhi". Are the jhanas he teaches deep or shallow like Leigh Brasingtons? I had been mostly convinced that jhana is a more shallow experience by the writings of Leigh Brasington until I read an excerpt of "From Grasping to Emptiness" by Analayo where he quotes suttas which point to jhana being deep and states of absorption. I hadn't known of those suttas before so now I am looking for explanations of jhana that lean toward this information.
On the other hand, I attended a day-long talk (and "book-signing" event) by Shankman shortly after the book's release (I have an autographed copy!), and in the guided meditations he used that day, my impression was that he was using a form of "jhana-lite" (more like Leigh Brasington, or B. Vimalaramsi, Bodhipaska, etc.).
That was, however, 8 years ago, and his practice and teaching may well have further evolved since then.
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
Re: Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
It is more in accord with the suttas and not the "hard" visuddhimagga jhanas.zan wrote:Have you read his book "The Art and Skill of Buddhist Meditation"? If so does the way he teaches jhana in it seem shallow as well?cjmacie wrote:Shankman's book is valuable, especially the interviews in the second part where a range of perspectives is presented by a range of "experts", including Thanissaro, and Pa Auk Sayadaw, as well as rather constrasting views from Jack Kornfield, Sharon Salzberg, etc.zan wrote: [Richard Shankman's] ..."The Experience of Samadhi". Are the jhanas he teaches deep or shallow like Leigh Brasingtons? I had been mostly convinced that jhana is a more shallow experience by the writings of Leigh Brasington until I read an excerpt of "From Grasping to Emptiness" by Analayo where he quotes suttas which point to jhana being deep and states of absorption. I hadn't known of those suttas before so now I am looking for explanations of jhana that lean toward this information.
On the other hand, I attended a day-long talk (and "book-signing" event) by Shankman shortly after the book's release (I have an autographed copy!), and in the guided meditations he used that day, my impression was that he was using a form of "jhana-lite" (more like Leigh Brasington, or B. Vimalaramsi, Bodhipaska, etc.).
That was, however, 8 years ago, and his practice and teaching may well have further evolved since then.
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.
- BB
- BB
Re: Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
bodom wrote:
It is more in accord with the suttas and not the "hard" visuddhimagga jhanas.
Could you elaborate please? Is it really really soft jhanas like Brasington teaches or less hard than Visuddhimagga but not as soft as Brasington?
Leigh Brasington for example teaches that one can hear even in the fourth jhana. The suttas may imply that this is not the case (but I'm not stating this firmly because I don't know enough nor do I want to start a debate ). Where is Shankman at on the depth question?
Assume all of my words on dhamma could be incorrect. Seek an arahant for truth.
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
"If we base ourselves on the Pali Nikayas, then we should be compelled to conclude that Buddhism is realistic. There is no explicit denial anywhere of the external world. Nor is there any positive evidence to show that the world is mind-made or simply a projection of subjective thoughts. That Buddhism recognizes the extra-mental existence of matter and the external world is clearly suggested by the texts. Throughout the discourses it is the language of realism that one encounters.
-Y. Karunadasa
Re: Anyone know of a book on jhana through anapanasati using tactile nimitta?
Nimitta in the context of samadhi means 'representation' (of the object-support), see:zan wrote:If one looks at the suttas, Patisambhidamagga and Vimuttimagga one will see instructions in great detail on how to use mindfulness of breathing to enter jhana and these instructions do not mention making use of visual nimitta but rather use tactile nimitta and, in the case of the Patisambhidamagga and Vimuttimagga, instruct one to ignore all images and stay with the tactile breath nimitta (still a nimitta, just not a visual one).
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2770
Accordingly, if one gets representation (nimitta) of the visual object through visual contact, one gets visual nimitta.
If one gets representation through touch (e.g. nimitta of air in Anapanasati), one gets tactile nimitta (however, visual components may also be present).
Being a representation of air, nimitta in Anapanasati has a quality of airiness, and when expanded, makes the body feel as if filled with air, as described in Vimuttimagga.