Hello!
It's been quite a while since I've written on the forum. I've recently been exploring the Pa Auk tradition of samatha practice. In his book "Seeing and Knowing" (found here: http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/know-see.pdf), he says the pay attention to the breath "as a concept". His instructions are to establish mindfulness of the breath on the upper lip or on the edge of the nostrils and:
"Do not pay attention to the individual characteristics (sabhàva-lakkhaõa), general characteristics (samma¤¤a-lakkhaõa) or colour of the nimitta (sign of concentration). The individual characteristics are the characteristics of the four elements in the breath: hardness, roughness, flowing, heat, supporting, pushing, etc. The general characteristics are the impermanent (anicca), suffering (dukkha), or non-self (anattà) characteristics of the breath. This means do not note ‘in, out, impermanent’, or ‘in, out, suffering’, or ‘in, out, non-self’. Simply be aware of the in-and-out breath as a concept."
1. What does he mean the in-and-out breath as a concept?
2. How can you both be mindful of the breathing in such a specific spot and not pay attention to the physical sensations of the breath?
I would appreciate any ideas you may have! Thanks!
Pa Auk method: "breath as a concept"
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Re: Pa Auk method: "breath as a concept"
I think he means that you should just know "there is a breath" and that's it. Ajahn Brahm gives same instructions - he even does not recommend to observe it in some particular bodily area, but says that you should just know if there is a breathing-in or breathing-out.
I found out for myself that this approach is harder than to observe sensations, but less straining.
I found out for myself that this approach is harder than to observe sensations, but less straining.
Re: Pa Auk method: "breath as a concept"
If the aim is a deep jhana state, then the object has to be something very stable. The "concept" of the breath (as Zom explains), a kasina object, metta, etc, are stable objects. The detailed sensations associated with breathing is not a stable object, it changes all over the place. Of course, there's nothing wrong with that. Those detailed sensations are a suitable object for the development of insight into anicca, etc. But they won't easily lead to a deep jhana.
See also this from Sayadaw U Pandita:
Mike
See also this from Sayadaw U Pandita:
Ānāpānassati can take two directions. If the meditator strives to be mindful of the form or manner of the in-breath and the out-breath, then it is samatha meditation and leads to one-pointedness of mind. On the other hand, if the meditator notes the sensation of the in-breath and out-breath as it moves and touches, then it is vipassanā meditation. The element of wind or motion (vāyo-dhātu) is matter (rūpa), while the awareness or consciousness of the sensation is mind (nāma). Therefore, ānāpānassati can be considered as vipassanā, and can lead to high levels of insight wisdom.
http://aimwell.org/questions.html
Mike
Re: Pa Auk method: "breath as a concept"
Discussion about the usefulness of different approaches moved to this thread: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 47#p317847
Mike
Mike
Re: Pa Auk method: "breath as a concept"
If I were to ask you “Do you know your mom”?Kabouterke wrote: 1. What does he mean the in-and-out breath as a concept?
Given that you do not see your mom physically, but yet you still know your mom. That is what is meant on knowing of a particular concept; in this case the breath.
The “upper lip or on the edge of the nostrils” is mean for beginner. It is meant for calming the body and mind. The location in between the upper lip and the edge of the nostrils, but above the skin; is your actual object; the breath at this location. But remember, breath is only a tool, not the actual object.Kabouterke wrote: 2. How can you both be mindful of the breathing in such a specific spot and not pay attention to the physical sensations of the breath?
A simple Meditation Handbook which I found very useful. May download from here.
http://tusitainternational.net/pdf/Tusi ... ndbook.pdf
Note:
1. a few words of meditation printed as mediation
2. wild dog analogy, 3 arrows without words, I think
head --> mind; rope --> mindfulness; pole --> Meditation Object.
3. a page with title word samad --> samadhi
Below is the page that may be related to your question, but the word 'nostril' does not match the original chinese version, so I strike it out.
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- The location in between the upper lip and the edge of the nostrils, but above the skin
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Re: Pa Auk method: "breath as a concept"
Atipattoh, thanks for the explanation (and taking the time to go into futher detail in your PM). I think the image of the saw is a very interesitn illustration of the mind concentrating on the breath at a point. I played around with that concept tonight in my evening samatha meditation, and it helped me relax and focus on the breath instead.atipattoh wrote:If I were to ask you “Do you know your mom”?Kabouterke wrote: 1. What does he mean the in-and-out breath as a concept?
Given that you do not see your mom physically, but yet you still know your mom. That is what is meant on knowing of a particular concept; in this case the breath.
The “upper lip or on the edge of the nostrils” is mean for beginner. It is meant for calming the body and mind. The location in between the upper lip and the edge of the nostrils, but above the skin; is your actual object; the breath at this location. But remember, breath is only a tool, not the actual object.Kabouterke wrote: 2. How can you both be mindful of the breathing in such a specific spot and not pay attention to the physical sensations of the breath?
A simple Meditation Handbook which I found very useful. May download from here.
http://tusitainternational.net/pdf/Tusi ... ndbook.pdf
Note:
1. a few words of meditation printed as mediation
2. wild dog analogy, 3 arrows without words, I think
head --> mind; rope --> mindfulness; pole --> Meditation Object.
3. a page with title word samad --> samadhi
Below is the page that may be related to your question, but the word 'nostril' does not match the original chinese version, so I strike it out.