does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Discussion of Samatha bhavana and Jhana bhavana.

does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Postby manas » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:15 am

Hello/everyone

I/am/looking/for/some/asubha/bhavana/resources
if/anyone/knows/of/some/good/ones
could/they/please/either/let/me/know/via/PM
or/(*if/appropriate/for/posting/here/publicly
considering/the/range/of/ages/in/this/forum*)
then/provide/some/links/here
I/am/interested/in/both
32/parts/of/the/body/contemplation
and
the/nine/cemetery/comtemplations
thank/you
manas
:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: does/anyone/know/of/good/asubha/resources?

Postby cooran » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:29 am

Hello manas,

I use this one:

The Nine Cemetery Contemplations:
http://silentmindopenheart.org/docs/cemetery/Death.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: does/anyone/know/of/good/asubha/resources?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:31 am

It is a practice better done with a qualified teacher, but you can always try it and see what happens. A good source is the Visuddhimagga.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: does/anyone/know/of/good/asubha/resources?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:34 am

Keep in mind the sutta story of the monks that were given the "foulness" of the body meditation and killed themselves as a result of it.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: does/anyone/know/of/good/asubha/resources?

Postby manas » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:35 am

cooran wrote:Hello manas,

I use this one:

The Nine Cemetery Contemplations:
http://silentmindopenheart.org/docs/cemetery/Death.html

with metta
Chris


Thank/you/Chris
:anjali:
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Re: does/anyone/know/of/good/asubha/resources?

Postby manas » Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:40 am

tiltbillings wrote:Keep in mind the sutta story of the monks that were given the part of the body meditation and killed themselves as a result of it.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


Thank/you/for/the/warning/Tilt
I/agree/that/one/ought/to/be/careful
that/it/is/disenchantment/that/develops
rather/than/aversion

In/my/case/ive/dabbled/in/this/before
not/very/methodically/as/yet
but/the/time/has/finally/arrived/i/feel
when/it/is/now/appropriate/for/me
to/undertake/it/more/thoroughly
and/I/feel/ready
(first/encountered/the/Dhamma/at/20y.o.
and/am/now/44)

kind/regards
:anjali:
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Re: does/anyone/know/of/good/asubha/resources?

Postby Ben » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:21 am

tiltbillings wrote:It is a practice better done with a qualified teacher, but you can always try it and see what happens. A good source is the Visuddhimagga.


I second Tilt's advice and recommendation.
And be very careful. Asubha practice is meant to cultivate disenchantment not aversion.
kind regards,

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

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Re: does/anyone/know/of/good/asubha/resources?

Postby manas » Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:44 am

Ben wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:It is a practice better done with a qualified teacher, but you can always try it and see what happens. A good source is the Visuddhimagga.


I second Tilt's advice and recommendation.
And be very careful. Asubha practice is meant to cultivate disenchantment not aversion.
kind regards,

Ben


I/am/going/to/take/your/advices
there/is/a/senior/monk
very/wise/and/experienced
who/has/known/me/for/many/years
when/i/visit/him/(hope/to/soon)
i/will/ask/for/his/advice
but/i/really/do/feel/ready
EDIT/and/because/of/the/difficulty
in/travel/time,/distance/and/petrol
to/get/to/that/monastery
i/might/just/begin
on/my/own
and/consult/asap/if
i/run/into/problems.
but/if/all/goes/well
i/might/just/be/able/to/use
online/resources

kind/regards
:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Mon Apr 22, 2013 1:27 pm

http://32parts.com/

This is a very helpful site, but of course I second the advice given by Ben and Tilt.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta

Stuff I write about things.
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Postby manas » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:12 am

LonesomeYogurt wrote:http://32parts.com/

This is a very helpful site, but of course I second the advice given by Ben and Tilt.


Thanks/LY
just/had/a/look/at/it
it/will/be/very/helpful
:anjali:
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Re: does/anyone/know/of/good/asubha/resources?

Postby EmptyShadow » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:32 am

tiltbillings wrote:Keep in mind the sutta story of the monks that were given the "foulness" of the body meditation and killed themselves as a result of it.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


Hi,
according to the Ven. Pa Auk Sayadaw's book "Workings of kamma" page 213 thay didnt killed themselves as a result of the asubha meditation but because of past unwholesome kamma.

THE FIVE HUNDRED BHIKKHUS

Another example is the five hundred bhikkhus who killed themselves
and killed each other.773 The Buddha knew that they all shared a common
unwholesome kamma: in the distant past, they had all been hunters
in the same forest. Using weapons and traps, they had made hunting their
livelihood. With keen pleasure (ha;;ha·tu;;ha), they had throughout their
lives killed animals and birds. At their death, that kamma produced rebirth
in hell. Then a wholesome kamma gave them rebirth as human beings.
And, dependent on a good friend, they came into the presence of
The Buddha, and ordained as bhikkhus. Some of them became Arahants,
some became Non-Returners, some became Once-Returners, some became
Stream-Enterers, whereas some remained ordinary persons (puthu·jjana).
One morning, as The Buddha was surveying the world with His
Buddha-Eye (Buddha·Cakkhu), He saw that within two weeks those five hundred bhikkhus would die: indefinitely-effective ‘hunting-aslivelihood’
kamma would intercept the wholesome kamma that had
given them their human rebirth. The Buddha also saw it was impossible
to stop this result from arising. And He saw that the Arahants would not
be reborn; the other Noble Ones would have a happy rebirth; but those
who were still ordinary persons (puthu·jjana) would die with lustful desire
(chanda·raga), with attachment for their human life, and would die with
fear: that would produce a bad rebirth. If, however, He taught them to
practise foulness meditation, they would remove their attachment for
life, and fear of death. And with that wholesome kamma, they would attain
rebirth in the deva world: The Buddha saw that He could help them
only that way. And that way, their ordination as bhikkhus would still turn
out beneficial to them. So The Buddha told them to take foulness
(asubha) (the thirty-two parts of the body (dva·tti5·sakara)) as their main
meditation subject:774 in many ways He spoke in praise of that meditation.
The Buddha also knew that in those two weeks, the bhikkhus would
come and report: ‘Today one bhikkhu died’, ‘Today two bhikkhus died’,
etc. Knowing He could not stop it, knowing there was no purpose in His
hearing those things, and to protect those who might criticize Him for
not stopping it, The Buddha went into seclusion for those two weeks.
After two weeks, the five hundred bhikkhus had all either killed themselves,
or had themselves killed. When The Buddha returned, He asked
the Venerable Ananda why the Sa]gha was so diminished. The Venerable
Ananda told Him it was because the bhikkhus had practised foulness
meditation. And the Venerable Ananda suggested The Buddha teach
another meditation subject. The Buddha asked the Venerable Ananda to
have the remaining bhikkhus assembled, and then explained and spoke in
praise of mindfulness of breathing (an·apana·ssati).
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Postby cooran » Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:46 am

LonesomeYogurt wrote:http://32parts.com/

This is a very helpful site, but of course I second the advice given by Ben and Tilt.


Thanks LY - excellent resource! :smile:

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: does/anyone/know/of/good/asubha/resources?

Postby Ben » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:02 am

EmptyShadow wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Keep in mind the sutta story of the monks that were given the "foulness" of the body meditation and killed themselves as a result of it.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


Hi,
according to the Ven. Pa Auk Sayadaw's book "Workings of kamma" page 213 thay didnt killed themselves as a result of the asubha meditation but because of past unwholesome kamma.


Actually, that comes from Saratthappakasini, Samyutta Nikaya-atthakatha (sub-commentary of the SN).
But regardless of how the mass suicide is explained, Tilt's caution is valid. These practices are potentially dangerous. The line between disenchantment and aversion is very thin. I have also witnessed many people who believe asubha practice is about developing aversion.
kind regards,

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Postby Ben » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:06 am

Dear members,

Please note that the posting of video and still images here on DW on autopsies, decaying corpses, medical procedures is not appropriate content for a family-friendly discussion board.
Keep in mind that amongst our members we have those who would be offended or disturbed by intense imagery, include children.
Thanks for your cooperation.

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Postby manas » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:50 am

Ben wrote:Dear members,

Please note that the posting of video and still images here on DW on autopsies, decaying corpses, medical procedures is not appropriate content for a family-friendly discussion board.
Keep in mind that amongst our members we have those who would be offended or disturbed by intense imagery, include children.
Thanks for your cooperation.

Ben


I/totally/agree/Ben!
I/also/have/kids/of/my/own
I/would/not/want/anyone/to/get/disturbed
because/as/has/been/pointed/out
although/this/practice/is/recommended/in/the/suttas
it/is/not/for/everyone,/agreed.

however/would/*just/a/link*/be/ok?
and/if/so,/a/member/could/perhaps/indicate
that/the/said/link/might/lead/to/confronting/imagery
and/thus/give/due/warning
and/thus/protecting/members
in/that/way?

please/do/advise
what/the/site/admin/etc/expect
in/regards/to/this
thank/you/kindly
:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Postby Ben » Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:58 am

manas wrote:
Ben wrote:Dear members,

Please note that the posting of video and still images here on DW on autopsies, decaying corpses, medical procedures is not appropriate content for a family-friendly discussion board.
Keep in mind that amongst our members we have those who would be offended or disturbed by intense imagery, include children.
Thanks for your cooperation.

Ben
I/totally/agree/Ben!
however/would/*just/a/link*/be/ok?
and/if/so,/should/a/member/perhaps/indicate
that/the/said/link/might/lead/to/confronting/imagery
and/thus/give/due/warning
and/thus/protecting/members
in/that/way?

please/do/advise
what/the/site/admin/etc/expect
in/regards/to/this
thank/you/kindly
:anjali:


Manas, I'll send you the link via pm.
kind regards,

Ben
"One cannot step twice into the same river, nor can one grasp any mortal substance in a stable condition, but it scatters and again gathers; it forms and dissolves, and approaches and departs."

- Hereclitus


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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Postby BlackBird » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:04 am

Sometimes, especially when I wanted to become a monk I would look at corpses in varying states of decomposition in order to help cultivate a sense of disenchantment and help quell my lust for the female form. I don't think there's any great harm in doing so, as long as your head's screwed on straight (as I'm pretty sure your's is Manas :) ). It's not hard to find these sorts of things, although I can pm you some links if you wish.

It helped me get some visual references for meditation on 32 parts of the body. I don't really do too much of it these days, as with no current plans for ordination on the horizon, I'm quite happy finding the female body endearing.

If you don't mind me saying Manas, I think it might be easier to read your posts if you started.placing.fullstops.in.place.of.your.broken.space.bar.instead.of/using/slashes/with/your/sentences/. But that's just my opinion :)

metta
Jack
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'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta
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Re: does anyone know of good asubha resources?

Postby manas » Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:19 am

BlackBird wrote:It's not hard to find these sorts of things, although I can pm you some links if you wish.

It helped me get some visual references for meditation on 32 parts of the body.


i.would.appreciate.that.thanks
i.want.more.skill.in.visualising.each.part
plus.its.relative.location.in.the.body

BlackBird wrote:If you don't mind me saying Manas, I think it might be easier to read your posts if you started.placing.fullstops.in.place.of.your.broken.space.bar.instead.of/using/slashes/with/your/sentences/. But that's just my opinion :)

metta
Jack


I.can.now.afford.to.replace.this.keyboard
it.is.to.be.hoped,today
moneys.been.very.short.lately
but.at.last.i.have.some.to.spare
anyway.now.that.you.mention.it
yes.full.stops.are.better
i.should.have.used.them.all.along! :tongue:
metta
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