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Jhana and breathing [Can anyone answer my question...] - Dhamma Wheel

Jhana and breathing [Can anyone answer my question...]

The cultivation of calm or tranquility and the development of concentration
bhante dhamma
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Jhana and breathing [Can anyone answer my question...]

Postby bhante dhamma » Sun Dec 02, 2012 4:46 pm

I remember reading somewhere in the pali canon a verse about there not being any breathing in the 4th jhana, and another verse about the breath being an obstacle to the 1st jhana..are there any dhammafarer's who can point me in the direction of a sutta/vagga so i can try to put an end to all these claims to 'I have jhana,' I looked in the jhana samyutta not there....

p.s a response preferably not 'try such and such a sutta/vagga' but rather 'its in such and such a sutta/vagga' would be good thnks

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daverupa
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Re: Can anyone answer my question...

Postby daverupa » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:02 pm



To one in the first jhana, sounds are a thorn.



When one has attained the fourth jhāna, kaya-sankhara have been stopped.

bhante dhamma
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2 questions

Postby bhante dhamma » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:24 pm

does the reference (SN IV sutta 217 refer to the salayatana vagga?) its about the breath being a hindrance to the 1st jhana, and does anyone have a reference for the absence of breathing in the 4th jhana?? thnks

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Cittasanto
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Re: 2 questions

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:53 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

bhante dhamma
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Re: 2 questions

Postby bhante dhamma » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:06 pm

ok thnks what about Anguttara 4 sutta/page? 430 (if the reference is to the pts then the no is a page no right?) its meant to be a sutta about jhana being an end of the sense world..?

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mikenz66
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Re: 2 questions

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Dec 02, 2012 6:14 pm


bhante dhamma
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Re: Jhana and breathing [Can anyone answer my question...]

Postby bhante dhamma » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:35 am

thanks mike, how do you decode analayo's PTS references? (from the jhana debate dialogue?) i.e i googled Pali Text Society but couldn't find an adequete search engine to find out say the achaan Thanissaro equivalent, can you search the access to insight database using pts references?

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mikenz66
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Re: Jhana and breathing [Can anyone answer my question...]

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:43 am

Hi dvemebhikkhave

The easiest way is to go to:
http://suttacentral.net/
and enter
SN IV 217
in the box, check "Volume/Page reference", and click "Submit".
In this case, you'll be pointed to several translations. For some suttas there are no on-line translations, but you will at least get the SN 36.11 form of reference.

There is some more discussion at: http://suttacentral.net/help.php

That site was set up to allow easy correspondence between Suttas from different schools, so there is some extra discussion that is not so relevant for this purpose.

:anjali:
Mike

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DAWN
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Re: Jhana and breathing [Can anyone answer my question...]

Postby DAWN » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:24 pm

With cessetion of breath it's heart that make lungs mouve. :heart:
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...


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