my nimittas always disapear soon

[lotus flower]

Hello All

i have only a not long samadhi (the longest is around one minute) so i can not focus on the breathing for minutes...
i see nimitta (blue or white bright light) but when i meditate and when the nimittas come i ignore the nimittas. i don't pay attention to them, i focus on the breathing. first i make 5 or 6 or more samadhi then i move to the nimitta. but my nimittas always disapear around a half minute. or the longest nimitta is one minute. i don't understand why. could anybody copy any teaching from a teacher or could you tell your own experience about nimittas and how to enter jhana? Thank you.

[Nicolas]

Ajahn Brahm would say to keep ignoring the nimitta if it can't be sustained.

When Nimitta Come Up Early
Sometimes, a "light" can appear in the mind at a very early stage of the meditation. However, for all except accomplished meditators, one will find that such "brazen intruders" are highly unstable. If one focuses one's attention on them, one will not get anywhere. It is not the right time for nimitta. It is better to regard them as distractions and go back to the main task of the early stage.

Ignore the Nimitta at First. It is more uncertain what to do when a nimitta appears at the stage of the beautiful breath, when the breath has yet to be calmed to disappearance. Again, the nimitta appears intrusive, It interferes with the main task of sustaining one's awareness on the beautiful breath. If one deliberately turns away from the breath and on to the nimitta, it usually doesn't remain long. The mind is not refined enough yet to hold a subtle nimitta; One needs to practice on the breath more. So the best thing to do is to ignore the nimitta and let all one's attention train on the beautiful breath.

Often having followed this advice, the nimitta comes back, stronger and brighter. Ignore it again. When it returns a third time, even more powerful and radiant, go back to the breath. Practicing this way, eventually a hugely powerful and brilliant nimitta will break into your awareness. You can go with that one. Actually, it is almost impossible to ignore. That one usually takes you into Jhana.

The above can be compared to a visitor knocking on your door. It could be an unimportant salesman so you ignore them and go on with your business. Often that's the end of the matter. Sometimes, though, they knock again, louder and longer. You ignore them a second time and continue with your task. They bang ever louder, ever more vigorously. This proves that it must be your best friend, so then you open the door, let them in, and have a great time together.

[lotus flower]

Ajahn Brahm would say to keep ignoring the nimitta if it can't be sustained.

When Nimitta Come Up Early
Sometimes, a "light" can appear in the mind at a very early stage of the meditation. However, for all except accomplished meditators, one will find that such "brazen intruders" are highly unstable. If one focuses one's attention on them, one will not get anywhere. It is not the right time for nimitta. It is better to regard them as distractions and go back to the main task of the early stage.

Ignore the Nimitta at First. It is more uncertain what to do when a nimitta appears at the stage of the beautiful breath, when the breath has yet to be calmed to disappearance. Again, the nimitta appears intrusive, It interferes with the main task of sustaining one's awareness on the beautiful breath. If one deliberately turns away from the breath and on to the nimitta, it usually doesn't remain long. The mind is not refined enough yet to hold a subtle nimitta; One needs to practice on the breath more. So the best thing to do is to ignore the nimitta and let all one's attention train on the beautiful breath.

Often having followed this advice, the nimitta comes back, stronger and brighter. Ignore it again. When it returns a third time, even more powerful and radiant, go back to the breath. Practicing this way, eventually a hugely powerful and brilliant nimitta will break into your awareness. You can go with that one. Actually, it is almost impossible to ignore. That one usually takes you into Jhana.

The above can be compared to a visitor knocking on your door. It could be an unimportant salesman so you ignore them and go on with your business. Often that's the end of the matter. Sometimes, though, they knock again, louder and longer. You ignore them a second time and continue with your task. They bang ever louder, ever more vigorously. This proves that it must be your best friend, so then you open the door, let them in, and have a great time together.

Thank you. another teacher say the same. i actually do it..... as you can read in my first message in this topic i focus on the breathing and i ignore nimittas. i do it usually for one and a half hour. but as i wrote before my samadhi on the breathing is around only a half minute, or one minute if the samadhi is longer. During the one and half hour i make some samadhi on the breathing and around one and a half hour (or sometimes TWO HOUR) i move to the nimitta.
But sometimes i practice on the breathing for around 3 hours and then move to the nimitta. and when i end the meditation i open my eyes and i see the clock. i meditated 4 hours. so as you read i follow this advice........

[Mkoll]

You could also check out the Visudhimagga and Pa Auk Sayadaw's teachings which deal quite a bit with nimittas.

[SarathW]

Learn to investigate "I do not have this distraction but I have this distraction"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[paul]

As has been mentioned, there is a full description of development of the first jhana, including the learning sign and access concentration,in the Visuddhimagga, chap. IV, verse 27 'Starting Contemplation' onwards. Chapter XX also discusses 'Imperfections of Insight'.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on2011.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You have developed morality and concentration, but insight must also be developed."The Jhanas in Theravada Buddhist Meditation", Bhante Gunaratana, not only describes development of the first jhana, but also the relation between tranquillity meditation and insight:

"The goal of the Buddhist path, complete and permanent liberation from suffering, is to be achieved by practicing the full threefold discipline of morality (sila), concentration (samadhi), and wisdom (pañña). The mundane jhanas, comprising the four fine-material jhanas and the four immaterial jhanas, pertain to the stage of concentration, which they fulfill to an eminent degree. However, taken by themselves, these states do not ensure complete deliverance, for they are incapable of cutting off the roots of suffering. The Buddha teaches that the cause of suffering, the driving power behind the cycle of rebirths, is the defilements with their three unwholesome roots — greed, hatred and delusion. Concentration of the absorption level, no matter to what heights it is pursued, only suppresses the defilements, but cannot destroy their latent seeds. Thence bare mundane jhana, even when sustained, cannot by itself terminate the cycle of rebirths. To the contrary, it may even perpetuate the round. For if any fine-material or immaterial jhana is held to with clinging, it will bring about a rebirth in that particular plane of existence corresponding to its own kammic potency, which can then be followed by rebirth in some lower realm.

What is required to achieve complete deliverance from the cycle of rebirths is the eradication of the defilements. Since the most basic defilement is ignorance (avijja), the key to liberation lies in developing its direct opposite, namely wisdom (pañña)."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... html#ch5.1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[lotus flower]

You could also check out the Visudhimagga and Pa Auk Sayadaw's teachings which deal quite a bit with nimittas.

Thank you, Pa auk Sayadaw say similar like Ajahn Brahm. i know already. but Visudhimagga is a great idea, i will check...

today the nimitta stayed longer but i felt it was no more than around two or three minutes.

As has been mentioned, there is a full description of development of the first jhana, including the learning sign and access concentration,in the Visuddhimagga, chap. IV, verse 27 'Starting Contemplation' onwards. Chapter XX also discusses 'Imperfections of Insight'.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... on2011.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You have developed morality and concentration, but insight must also be developed."The Jhanas in Theravada Buddhist Meditation", Bhante Gunaratana, not only describes development of the first jhana, but also the relation between tranquillity meditation and insight:

"The goal of the Buddhist path, complete and permanent liberation from suffering, is to be achieved by practicing the full threefold discipline of morality (sila), concentration (samadhi), and wisdom (pañña). The mundane jhanas, comprising the four fine-material jhanas and the four immaterial jhanas, pertain to the stage of concentration, which they fulfill to an eminent degree. However, taken by themselves, these states do not ensure complete deliverance, for they are incapable of cutting off the roots of suffering. The Buddha teaches that the cause of suffering, the driving power behind the cycle of rebirths, is the defilements with their three unwholesome roots — greed, hatred and delusion. Concentration of the absorption level, no matter to what heights it is pursued, only suppresses the defilements, but cannot destroy their latent seeds. Thence bare mundane jhana, even when sustained, cannot by itself terminate the cycle of rebirths. To the contrary, it may even perpetuate the round. For if any fine-material or immaterial jhana is held to with clinging, it will bring about a rebirth in that particular plane of existence corresponding to its own kammic potency, which can then be followed by rebirth in some lower realm.

What is required to achieve complete deliverance from the cycle of rebirths is the eradication of the defilements. Since the most basic defilement is ignorance (avijja), the key to liberation lies in developing its direct opposite, namely wisdom (pañña)."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... html#ch5.1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah, thanks, but i practice vipassana meditation also.

[Nicolas]

The Upakkilesa sutta (MN 128) mentions the following imperfections of the mind that were dispelled by the Buddha so that the nimitta would persist: doubt, inattention, sloth and torpor, fear, elation, inertia, excess of energy, deficiency of energy, longing, perception of diversity, excessive meditation upon forms.

[lotus flower]

The Upakkilesa sutta (MN 128) mentions the following imperfections of the mind that were dispelled by the Buddha so that the nimitta would persist: doubt, inattention, sloth and torpor, fear, elation, inertia, excess of energy, deficiency of energy, longing, perception of diversity, excessive meditation upon forms.

Thank you, Nicolas. you are very helpful. in which sutta can i read about how to overcome from these hindrances? or any teaching about it?... does someone can show such sutta or a teacher's teaching?

[SarathW]

The Upakkilesa sutta (MN 128) mentions the following imperfections of the mind that were dispelled by the Buddha so that the nimitta would persist: doubt, inattention, sloth and torpor, fear, elation, inertia, excess of energy, deficiency of energy, longing, perception of diversity, excessive meditation upon forms.

[lotus flower]

The Upakkilesa sutta (MN 128) mentions the following imperfections of the mind that were dispelled by the Buddha so that the nimitta would persist: doubt, inattention, sloth and torpor, fear, elation, inertia, excess of energy, deficiency of energy, longing, perception of diversity, excessive meditation upon forms.

longing - the mind craving and clinging to the nimitta, yes. true. Ajahn Brahm gave advices in his book about how make the craving lower.

but the most hard task is low the clinging and craving...... it is a reason why the nimitta disapear.

i believe that vipassana meditation cure the problem gradually..

[atipattoh]

'SAMSARA IS ONLY DUKKHA '
Sound's a bit passive! If you may, evaluate your sitting if it is lagged in piti sukha. If it is, try to find delite in meditation, cultivate piti sukha in your sitting.
Happy sitting!

[lotus flower]

'SAMSARA IS ONLY DUKKHA '
Sound's a bit passive! If you may, evaluate your sitting if it is lagged in piti sukha. If it is, try to find delite in meditation, cultivate piti sukha in your sitting.
Happy sitting!

samadhi is always happy .

[lotus flower]

'SAMSARA IS ONLY DUKKHA '
Sound's a bit passive! If you may, evaluate your sitting if it is lagged in piti sukha. If it is, try to find delite in meditation, cultivate piti sukha in your sitting.
Happy sitting!

[/quote]

samadhi is always happy . breathing samadhi and nimitta samadhi are both happy. i have piti sukha.

[lotus flower]

'SAMSARA IS ONLY DUKKHA '
Sound's a bit passive! If you may, evaluate your sitting if it is lagged in piti sukha. If it is, try to find delite in meditation, cultivate piti sukha in your sitting.
Happy sitting!

if someone has no piti sukha then the nimitta doesn't appear. nimitta appear only to a silented , calmed and joyful mind.