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How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:58 am
by DeeHarry
Ok, before anyone gets any ideas let me explain. I killed a mosquito that was roaming around my 2 yo son and everyone jumped. The conversation went something like this:

Others: You shouldn’t have done that as a Buddhist. You should have used some preventive method.

Me: Isnt it the thought that matters? I didn’t wake up in the morning thinking I was going to kill a mosquito. In fact I didn’t think about it at all, up until the point that mosquito appeared around my son.

Others: You thought of killing it, You acted to kill it and carried out an action to do so. So your bad Karma is complete.

Me: My sole thought was to protect my son. And in my opinion that is my responsibility. If I didn’t do it I think I would be doing bigger crime. So it is correct in my book.

I can understand their side of it, but what about my side ?

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:59 am
by cooran
Hello DeeHarry, all,

There isn’t any wiggle room in Buddhism … the deliberate knowing killing another being is just that, and will have its results. The mosquito in this re-becoming, may well have been a human in a previous birth….

Getting The Message … Thanissaro Bhikkhu
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ssage.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Vipaka Sutta … Results
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There was a previous thread on this subject:
About not kill any living being
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=4893" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:43 am
by Dan74
Using a bit of common sense it is clear that killing a mosquito in this situation is not a serious misdemeanor (and hopefully our Dhamma/Dharma isn't divorced from common sense).

From what I understand intention is the key. Your prime intention was to avoid harm to your son, not to cause harm to the mosquito. Still you disregarded the mosquito's life in the process. That's where from what I can tell, the bad karma lies. But rather than agonizing over it and its results which we can't know, better simply to cultivate respect for all life.

This will surely yield good karmic fruits!

Mosquitos, simple as they may be, are alive, look for food, have babies, suffer in some ways and probably have rudimentary feelings. I found it useful to reflect how similar we are to all creatures and how we share this earth and its ecosystem.

For what it's worth I was in the same situation probably 4 years ago and it was my 3-year-old son (rather than Buddhist friends) who didn't let me live it down. So mosquitoes have since been trapped gently and released! :smile:

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:31 pm
by Lazy_eye
Excellent post, Dan!

While killing is never the right thing to do, there are passages in the scriptures which indicate -- at least to me -- that common sense applies and the weight of the kamma depends on the person's intent and overall frame of mind. In general, the suttas talk about those who are "murderous, bloody-handed, given to blows and violence, merciless to living beings", and the Vipaka Sutta cited by Cooran above mentions "the taking of life — when indulged in, developed, & pursued". Most people are prone to impatience or anger in some situations; this doesn't make us 'murderous, bloody-handed, given to blows", etc.

I doubt that swatting a mosquito, out of an instinctive response to protect one's son, is on the same moral level as deliberately and cruelly setting out to inflict harm. It's still the taking of a life, though, and our willingness to kill the mosquito indicates that at some level we don't consider it worthy of our care and attention. None of us are perfect, so probably not something to agonize over -- more, like Dan suggested, an opportunity to rethink our behavior and look for more wholesome alternatives.

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 1:37 pm
by cooran
And yet another thread:

Hurting mosquito
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... iew=unread" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:19 pm
by Lazy_eye
Hi again,

I just happened to be listening this afternoon to a talk by Bhikkhu Bodhi that touched on this issue (he gave the example of someone who swats an insect that is about to bite an infant), and I thought his remarks might be worth mentioning here. He points out that there is bright kamma, dark kamma and mixed kamma.

Choosing to kill a mosquito is obviously "dark kamma", but the intention to protect a child is "bright kamma", and so the situation is mixed. Whether it's more on the dark or bright side probably depends on the weight of intention -- i.e., if you weren't strongly motivated by a desire to kill the critter, but rather were just trying to get it away from a vulnerable toddler, then the kamma wouldn't be so negative.

By contrast, there are those who would use the kid mainly as an excuse for striking out at the insect. And my guess is that if you or i were to kill a mosquito just to protect ourselves from being bitten, it would be mostly dark kamma since the intention is selfish.

Just to throw that out there... It's in the "Ox-Duty Ascetic" sutta, in case you'd like to go back to the source.

LE

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:22 pm
by cooran
Hello LE,

There were many other choices which could have been made. Simply catching the l'il fella in a computer disc case (or cupped hands) and releasing it outside springs to mind. Wearing repellents in a mosquito prone area is another.

with metta
Chris

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:34 pm
by Lazy_eye
cooran wrote:Hello LE,

There were many other choices which could have been made. Simply catching the l'il fella in a computer disc case (or cupped hands) and releasing it outside springs to mind. Wearing repellents in a mosquito prone area is another.

with metta
Chris
Yes, absolutely. You're quite right. But the OP asked about the karmic implications, so it seemed worth mentioning that there is such a thing as mixed kamma.

There might be situations, too, where an insect or other animal is carrying a lethal disease and the primary intention is to protect public health. "Mixed" situations seem to be common in the human realm.

I had an experience yesterday with non-violent wasp removal! :shock:

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 9:45 pm
by Kim OHara
Lazy_eye wrote: I had an experience yesterday with non-violent wasp removal! :shock:
Most wasps are actually non-violent, as are most spiders.
Leave them room to move and they won't bother anyone.
Be reasonable: would *you* willingly attack something 10,000 or 100,000 times your size if you had any other option?
The trick, of course, is to leave them room to move when they have gotten into what we reckon is the wrong place.
:namaste:
Kim
IMG_0232.jpg
IMG_0232.jpg (52.42 KiB) Viewed 8738 times
Not bothering anyone - and doesn't want to :smile:

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:23 am
by DeeHarry
Hello Everyone,

Thank you for all your posts. I am not sure how many of you are born Bhuddists. I am and everyone I have been talking to is, but this post has been more enlighting that any hours of conversation I have been having on the subject. Thank you all so much. I get the point now. And yes it does help to reflect on being a human being.

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:36 am
by ground
cooran wrote:Hello DeeHarry, all,

There isn’t any wiggle room in Buddhism … the deliberate knowing killing another being is just that, and will have its results. The mosquito in this re-becoming, may well have been a human in a previous birth….
I concur.

The only thing to do is to regret form the depth of one's heart, openly admit one's misdeed, practice the teachings as never did before and consequently abstain from any further killing in the future.

The worst thing to do is to justify or seek justifications.

kind regards

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:52 am
by ground
If I may add how it is defined in my tradition:

Killing comprises:
1. The "basis" which is another living sentient being
2. The "thought" which covers correct perception of this other being, the motivation to kill and the accompanying obscuring affliction.
3. The "performance" which is the deed of killing
4. The "culmination" which is the result of oneself being alive and the other being being killed and the awareness of that.

This is full-fledged killing.

Killing that is not full-fledged may be done e.g. unconsciously or the like.

kind regards

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:47 am
by fabianfred
Rather than start a new thread...can I ask here.....
A fellow monk told me that masturbation is wrong because we are killing living beings (sperm)...but I thought only sentient beings were considered..... and I thought sperm would be like viruses or microbes which are not classed as sentient.

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:52 am
by Phra Chuntawongso
Hi Fabianfred,As far as my understanding is rebirth in the human realm would take place at the point where the sperm and the egg come together and not before hand.I mean there was an add in Britain that had a Tibetan monk blowing his nose with some kind of anti bacterial wipe and as the voice over says something about this wipe killing x amount of germs the monk gets a guilty look on his face.Anyway the act of killing involves intent.The thought"I am going to kill this must be present".
I am not sure this thought is going through the average guys mind as he is busy :quote: spanking the monkey. :quote:
:focus: If where you live then the mozzie may be carrying malaria or dengue fever,in this case while it may still be unskilful to kill the mozzie your intention may have been to protect the child and not to kill the critter.If you don't live in a country with these diseases then catching the little critter and taking it outside it definately the way to go.
P.S Fred got your PM thanks

Re: How bad is killing a mosquito?

Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 11:40 am
by Annapurna
Lazy_eye wrote:
I doubt that swatting a mosquito, out of an instinctive response to protect one's son, is on the same moral level as deliberately and cruelly setting out to inflict harm. It's still the taking of a life, though, and our willingness to kill the mosquito indicates that at some level we don't consider it worthy of our care and attention. None of us are perfect, so probably not something to agonize over -- more, like Dan suggested, an opportunity to rethink our behavior and look for more wholesome alternatives.
Hi, Lazy eye.

Buddhist Practice wipes out instinctive automatisms.

If they are instincts. I think they are 'learned reflexes' and as such, can be unlearned. :toilet: