Sensual desire

Buddhist ethical conduct including the Five Precepts (Pañcasikkhāpada), and Eightfold Ethical Conduct (Aṭṭhasīla).
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Mkoll
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Re: Sensual desire

Post by Mkoll »

mikenz66 wrote:
Mkoll wrote: I'd agree with you that the craving for existence is much stronger and more prevalent for the same reasons you gave. But would you agree that there are moments or short periods of time of craving for non-existence for many?
Sure, and that's a key attraction of alcohol and other drugs. To "forget" the problems.

Along with, of course: 
...
When he harbours aversion towards painful feeling, the underlying tendency to aversion towards painful feeling lies behind this. Being contacted by painful feeling, he seeks delight in sensual pleasure. For what reason? Because the uninstructed worldling does not know of any escape from painful feeling other than sensual pleasure.
...
http://suttacentral.net/search?query=sn+36.6
:anjali:
Mike
I'd say that indulging in drugs is for the pleasant feelings brought about by the drugs and for the existence of oneself in doing so. I'd classify the actual usage of the drugs as craving for existence. I would agree that one may use drugs to "forget" or mask thoughts of craving for non-existence like suicidal thoughts.

Some use drugs purely for hedonic pleasure.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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mikenz66
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Re: Sensual desire

Post by mikenz66 »

Hmm, perhaps it depends on your lifestyle... I have talked to a lot of people who basically say they have a few drinks on Friday so they can forget the problems of work. Sounds very much like craving for nonexistence (of their work persona/problems) to me. That's certainly something I can identify with, and used to do...

:anjali:
Mike
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Mkoll
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Re: Sensual desire

Post by Mkoll »

mikenz66 wrote:Hmm, perhaps it depends on your lifestyle... I have talked to a lot of people who basically say they have a few drinks on Friday so they can forget the problems of work. Sounds very much like craving for nonexistence (of their work persona/problems) to me. That's certainly something I can identify with, and used to do...

:anjali:
Mike
Maybe that thought itself is craving for non-existence. But the act of getting drugs and using them is definitely craving for sensual pleasures IMO. Or it could be described as craving for existence in which sensual pleasures are experienced.

If the craving for non-existence was strong enough, they wouldn't use drugs. Instead, they'd do what Zom suggested: try to commit suicide.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
LXNDR
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Re: Sensual desire

Post by LXNDR »

Mkoll wrote: You continue to make less and less sense, which is not surprising to be honest.
it's not my fault, but yours, which is still not surprising
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Mkoll
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Re: Sensual desire

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LXNDR wrote:
Mkoll wrote: You continue to make less and less sense, which is not surprising to be honest.
it's not my fault, but yours, which is still not surprising
:shrug:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
lonewolf
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Re: Sensual desire

Post by lonewolf »

Alex123 wrote:
lonewolf wrote:Even though selfishness, greed, hatred seem not to be a major/gross issue for me, the sensuality is. I do know about the gross nature of the body, the hopelessness of an attachment/clinging to impermanent, but yet I find myself strongly attracted to the opposite gender.
I have similar issue too.

I am exploring these:
a) eat less (and or try to fast if you have no medical conditions).

b)Contemplate pleasant feelings that opposite gender gives you. Sometimes this attraction could be not just due to subha vipallasa, but due to clinging to "pleasant" feeling that sex, masturbation, looking at opposite gender, etc, etc, directly or indirectly gives to you.
Intellectually I think I have it worked out. Logically I know getting into a relationsip is asking for trouble. One mind to deal with on a regular basis is more than enough, adding another to the equation is a whole new ball game. So intellectually I do not want what my sensuality sees as desirable. Now if only my brain could talk some sense to my mind. You know the saying "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you" kinda thing.
lonewolf
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Re: Sensual desire

Post by lonewolf »

Zom wrote:
Non-existence is a lot more attractive to me than any form of existence ever was
This is just a view, but deep inside every living being crave to exist - and because of that automatically defends itself in life-threatening situation. When a being really falls into craving for non-existence, it just commits suicide, which is, as we know, not the end of suffering.
Yes it is a view. I think if I was in a life threatening situation my self-preservation instinct would take over, but that's not what I was referring to. I have no suicidal tendencies, and my mind is pretty even keeled. I mentioned that I do not consider it a possibility, just an idealistic dream.

Non-existence would mean, no suffering, no opportunity to do harm, and so on. One does not need to be desperate, suicidal, or prone to anything to appreciate the theoretical beauty of non-existence. I do not yearn for it, or ponder it much, it was relevant to the post so I mentioned it.

Impermanence is an occasion for suffering to arise. No existence, no impermanence. I know, Nibbana is supposed be all that too, and since the Noble Buddha said that it is the only option to free onself from all bonds, the choice is very simple.
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mikenz66
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Re: Sensual desire

Post by mikenz66 »

Mkoll wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:Hmm, perhaps it depends on your lifestyle... I have talked to a lot of people who basically say they have a few drinks on Friday so they can forget the problems of work. Sounds very much like craving for nonexistence (of their work persona/problems) to me. That's certainly something I can identify with, and used to do...

:anjali:
Mike
Maybe that thought itself is craving for non-existence. But the act of getting drugs and using them is definitely craving for sensual pleasures IMO. Or it could be described as craving for existence in which sensual pleasures are experienced.

If the craving for non-existence was strong enough, they wouldn't use drugs. Instead, they'd do what Zom suggested: try to commit suicide.
It seems different people have different experiences. Maybe it's a generational thing... What I see, both in myself (formerly) and others is a desire to (temporarily) disconnect with their stressful/painful reality:
I have become comfortably numb...
:anjali:
Mike
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Mkoll
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Re: Sensual desire

Post by Mkoll »

mikenz66 wrote:
Mkoll wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:Hmm, perhaps it depends on your lifestyle... I have talked to a lot of people who basically say they have a few drinks on Friday so they can forget the problems of work. Sounds very much like craving for nonexistence (of their work persona/problems) to me. That's certainly something I can identify with, and used to do...

:anjali:
Mike
Maybe that thought itself is craving for non-existence. But the act of getting drugs and using them is definitely craving for sensual pleasures IMO. Or it could be described as craving for existence in which sensual pleasures are experienced.

If the craving for non-existence was strong enough, they wouldn't use drugs. Instead, they'd do what Zom suggested: try to commit suicide.
It seems different people have different experiences. Maybe it's a generational thing... What I see, both in myself (formerly) and others is a desire to (temporarily) disconnect with their stressful/painful reality:
I have become comfortably numb...
:anjali:
Mike
The key word there is "comfortably" isn't it? The fact that drink/drugs provide a comfortable and pleasant experience is why people do them. If they weren't sensually pleasing, people wouldn't use them to escape, albeit temporarily. For something to provide an escape, it must be pleasant for the individual.

And it actually isn't even an "escape," though those of us who are worldlings may convince ourselves that it is. The Buddha teaches that feeling, even pleasant feeling, is impermanent, stressful, and not-self. His teaching leaves no room for any ultimate escape from suffering but Nibbana. That's part of why it's so brilliant.

I think we're talking about the same thing, just describing it differently. There may be something generational to that, perhaps.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
theend
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Re: Sensual desire

Post by theend »

As I see it, it is not always necessary to address one's sensual desire directly. The important thing is that one's urge to escape from insecurity and death is stronger, so that one is willing to restrain oneself regardless of one's attraction to the opposite gender. Think of the simile of the delicious but poisonous drink. If you don't want to die, you have to restrain yourself from tasting, despite your thirst. Luckily, you don't have to do this forever, just long enough.
Itivuttaka 109 wrote:Desiring future security from bondage
One should abandon sensual desire
However painful this may be.
Rightly comprehending with wisdom,
Possessing a mind that is well released,
One may reach freedom step by step.
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GengisAmon
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Re: Sensual desire

Post by GengisAmon »

I have the same issues, and even when I use asubha as a meditation, sometimes doesnt work.Perhaps, I need to use this kind of meditation very frequently
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Alex123
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Re: Sensual desire

Post by Alex123 »

GengisAmon wrote:I have the same issues, and even when I use asubha as a meditation, sometimes doesnt work.Perhaps, I need to use this kind of meditation very frequently
Cut out as much food as possible. I have noticed that it really works for me. I am doing 24 hour fasts every other day and I masturbate MUCH less. Really, limit your food intake. Fast.
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