Touching with the body vs knowing through wisdom

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
Nyana
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Re: Touching with the body vs knowing through wisdom

Post by Nyana »

Alex123 wrote:In the Bahiya Sutta, Ven. Bahiya went from ordinary good wordling on a wrong path, to an Arahant within a discource. He completed 4 maggaphalas and 37 factors of awakening within seconds. This example and others show us that the path can be momentary.
Hi Alex,

Another sutta tells us that Ven. Bāhiya had the capacity for sharp understanding (khippābhiññā). And as a dedicated ascetic, it is quite probable that Bāhiya was already at a high level of development with regard to ethical conduct (sīla) and concentration (samādhi). So I would suggest that Ven. Bāhiya was already quite highly developed when he earnestly set out to find the Buddha after being rebuked by the deva.

Ven. Bāhiya was no "average Joe." :anjali:

Geoff
Nyana
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Re: Touching with the body vs knowing through wisdom

Post by Nyana »

rowyourboat wrote:Also the effect of samadhi is not adequately captured intellectually- hence poorly expressed in books.
Very true RYB.
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Alex123
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Re: Touching with the body vs knowing through wisdom

Post by Alex123 »

Ñāṇa wrote: Another sutta tells us that Ven. Bāhiya had the capacity for sharp understanding (khippābhiññā). And as a dedicated ascetic, it is quite probable that Bāhiya was already at a high level of development with regard to ethical conduct (sīla) and concentration (samādhi).
What kind of Samadhi was there if as devata says Bahiya was:
"You, Bahiya, are neither an arahant nor have you entered the path of arahantship. You don't even have the practice whereby you would become an arahant or enter the path of arahantship."]

Furthermore, Samma-Samadhi is defined as containing 7 factors of N8P.
Now what, monks, is noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions? Any singleness of mind equipped with these seven factors — right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, & right mindfulness — is called noble right concentration with its supports & requisite conditions.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So how could Bahiya have noble right concentration if he was not on the path?
Nyana
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Re: Touching with the body vs knowing through wisdom

Post by Nyana »

Alex123 wrote:
Ñāṇa wrote: Another sutta tells us that Ven. Bāhiya had the capacity for sharp understanding (khippābhiññā). And as a dedicated ascetic, it is quite probable that Bāhiya was already at a high level of development with regard to ethical conduct (sīla) and concentration (samādhi).
What kind of Samadhi was there if as devata says Bahiya was:
"You, Bahiya, are neither an arahant nor have you entered the path of arahantship. You don't even have the practice whereby you would become an arahant or enter the path of arahantship."]
So how could Bahiya have noble right concentration if he was not on the path?
As I said, it is likely that he had a high level of development with regard to concentration (samādhi). What he lacked was right view (sammādiṭṭhi). Therefore his way of practice (paṭipadā) wasn't conducive as a path to arahantship (arahattamagga), and his samādhi wasn't sammāsamādhi. The instruction he received from the Buddha enabled him to discern right view, and with that the other seven components of the noble eightfold path quickly aligned.
rowyourboat
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Re: Touching with the body vs knowing through wisdom

Post by rowyourboat »

The first people Buddha thought of teaching were his teachers- perhaps out of gratitude/familiarity but all because 'they had little dust in their eyes' These teaches were reaching formless jhanas hence they had well unified minds full of samadhi, but were not on the path to nibbaana.
With Metta

Karuna
Mudita
& Upekkha
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