Metta - How long is too long?

[Jon]

Hello Dhamma Wheel!

I begin all my meditation sessions by doing some Metta before I focus on the breath. However, sometimes I never leave Metta and will stay on the cycle of good-will wishing for 30-40 minutes! It makes me feel overjoyed and I do not want to leave that process. Is this a bad attachment??

[Bakmoon]

Hello Dhamma Wheel!

I begin all my meditation sessions by doing some Metta before I focus on the breath. However, sometimes I never leave Metta and will stay on the cycle of good-will wishing for 30-40 minutes! It makes me feel overjoyed and I do not want to leave that process. Is this a bad attachment??

Metta meditation is an excellent meditation method all on its own. I think that this is a sign of very good progress in meditation. You might consider making Metta meditation your primary practice.

[SarathW]

It is great that you can practice Metta Bhavana for a long time.
Once you become establish in this meditation you have to move to a higher level.

Please read the following Sutta.
Relay Chariot
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ryanM]

Stick with it! It's a blameless happiness! Your mind will settle by itself. No need to forcibly move on to another level.

[Kabouterke]

It is great that you can practice Metta Bhavana for a long time.
Once you become establish in this meditation you have to move to a higher level.

First of all, you can do metta meditation for hours an hours. There's no limit, and the longer you sit the more interesting it will become. It's also an excellent object of meditation to help beginning meditators to get into the jhanas.

Secondly, I disagree with SarathW that you "outgrow" metta meditation at some point, as s/he seems to suggest.

Metta meditation is practiced in two ways, I've noticed:
1. As a supplementary or beginning practice that is done in combination with another practice (ex. vipassana).
2. As a part of the brahma viharas, which is a complete meditation in and of itself whichs leads to enlightenment.

If you're doing number 1, metta meditation is an excellent way to create and reinforce wholesome states in your daily life and meditation practice. I don't think we can ever get enough of that.

If you're doing number 2, metta meditation (as long as it's not practiced as an exclusively samatha practice and it is practiced as part of the brahma viharas) can lead to enlightenment. You certainly can't outgrow that

[SarathW]

"Then again, a monk keeps pervading the first direction[2] with an awareness imbued with good will, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth. Thus above, below, & all around, everywhere, in its entirety, he keeps pervading the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, without hostility, without ill will. He reflects on this and discerns, 'This awareness-release through good will is fabricated & intended. Now whatever is fabricated & intended is inconstant & subject to cessation.' Staying right there, he reaches the ending of the mental fermentations. Or, if not, then — through this very Dhamma-passion, this Dhamma-delight, and from the total wasting away of the first five Fetters — he is due to be reborn [in the Pure Abodes], there to be totally unbound, never again to return from that world.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

[Kabouterke]

"Then again, a monk keeps pervading the first direction[2] with an awareness imbued with good will, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth. Thus above, below, & all around, everywhere, in its entirety, he keeps pervading the all-encompassing cosmos with an awareness imbued with good will — abundant, expansive, immeasurable, without hostility, without ill will. He reflects on this and discerns, 'This awareness-release through good will is fabricated & intended. Now whatever is fabricated & intended is inconstant & subject to cessation.' Staying right there, he reaches the ending of the mental fermentations. Or, if not, then — through this very Dhamma-passion, this Dhamma-delight, and from the total wasting away of the first five Fetters — he is due to be reborn [in the Pure Abodes], there to be totally unbound, never again to return from that world.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Hi. What're you trying to say with this? If anything, this Sutta seems to support my point that metta, when practiced as part of the brahma viharas, leads to liberation.

"Reaching the end of mental fermentations" and "being reborn in the pure abodes, never to return again" means the the person became an anagami, a non-returner. If you can become an anagami with the practice, then it seems like a pretty complete path to me.

So, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make...

[JohnK]

Just took a re-look at page 178 in Bhikkhu Bodhi's "In the Buddha's Words," from MN99. The sutta speaks of "liberation of mind by loving- kindness" being "the path to the company of Brahma." His note 21 says (p.436) "A brahmavihara that has been mastered leads to rebirth in the brahma world." So apparently in this case what has been translated as "liberation of mind" does not refer to Nibanna, the end of all rebirth.
On his p.179 (from AN 9:20), after referring to sila, "As great as all this might be, it would be even more fruitful if one would develop a mind of loving-kindness even for the time it takes to pull a cow's udder. And as great as all this might be, it would be even more fruitful still if one would develop the perception of impermanence just for the time it takes to snap one's finger."
I'm not dissing metta, just adding some of Bhikkhu Bodhi's scholarship to the discussion.

[SarathW]

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it would be even more fruitful still if one would develop the perception of impermanence just for the time it takes to snap one's finger.

That is the point I am trying to make here.

[Kabouterke]

So, I'm kind of having the same debate in two different threads.

I agree completely that metta meditation, in and of itself, is not enough to lead to liberation.
However, metta can be part of the path to liberation when practiced as part of the brahma-viharas.
In addition, the brahma-viharas can't be practiced as a simple samatha-style meditation. In order to lead to liberation, they need to be practiced as a part of meditation in which samatha and insight are equally yolked.

When practiced in this way, SarathW, insight into impermance can easily arise. When insight and samatha are combined, metta (as part of the brahma-viharas) is equally capable of helping the meditator realize impermanence as any other object of meditation.

I do readily admit that my first post in which I said that the brahma-viharas are a "complete practice in and of themselves" seems contradictory to what I am saying here. However, I personally do not believe that the insight and samatha elements of meditation can/should be separated. I practice meditation as one unified path. I tend to forget that not everybody practices this way, which is why I failed to mention this in my first response. However, hopefully this extra explanation will clear up any confusion with what I meant in my first response.

I agree with Thanissaro on this issue. See the following article for a more detailed explanation: http://zugangzureinsicht.org/html/lib/a ... n.html#ch7

[fivebells]

It makes me feel overjoyed and I do not want to leave that process. Is this a bad attachment??

Nope. Enjoy.

[Tex]

I don't think there's any such thing as too much metta meditation.

But sometimes I'll set timers and do 20 minutes of metta followed by 10 minutes of anapanasati (for example). That way I make sure to get them both in.