What is neutral feeling?

[subaru]

In the context of Feeling (Vedana) as an object of meditation, what is "Neutral Feeling" ?

Does it mean "No Feeling"? which could be articulated as "No pleasant feeling and No unpleasant feeling"
or Does it mean "A feeling which is neither pleasant nor unpleasant"?

I suspect it is the latter, but I cannot find that object.

[samseva]

In the context of Feeling (Vedana) as an object of meditation, what is "Neutral Feeling" ?

Does it mean "No Feeling"? which could be articulated as "No pleasant feeling and No unpleasant feeling"
or Does it mean "A feeling which is neither pleasant nor unpleasant"?

I suspect it is the latter, but I cannot find that object.

A better translation is in fact "neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling". From the Pāḷi, which is adukkha-m-asukhā vedanā, this is pretty much exactly what it means.

[subaru]

Ok that is my interpretation as well.

So there arise an object which is defined as "Feeling/Sensation/Vedana" but it is neither-pleasant-nor-painful

How does it feel like? please elaborate ?

[samseva]

Ok that is my interpretation as well.

So there arise an object which is defined as "Feeling/Sensation/Vedana" but it is neither-pleasant-nor-painful

How does it feel like? please elaborate ?

Neutral, hence the alternative translation, or neither-painful-nor-pleasant; just a feeling. Do you ever have feelings that are neither painful nor pleasant? That's it.

[SarathW]

10. Vedanà or Feeling
Feeling or, as some prefer to say, sensation, is a mental state
common to all types of consciousness. Chiefly there are
three kinds of feelings—namely, ‘somanassa’ (pleasurable),
‘domanassa’ (displeasurable), and ‘upekkhà’ (indifferent,
neutral, equanimity or neither pleasurable nor displeasurable).
With ‘dukkha’ (physical pain) and ‘sukha’ (physical
happiness) there are altogether five kinds of feelings.
Somanassa is an abstract noun formed of ‘su’, good,
and ‘mana’, mind. Literally, the term means good-mindedness,
i.e., a pleasurable feeling. Similarly ‘domanassa’ (‘du’,
bad, and ‘mana’, mind) means bad-mindedness, i.e., a displeasurable
feeling. The third feeling is neutral. Indifference
is used here in this particular sense, but not in the
sense of callousness. Sukha is composed of ‘su’, easy, and
‘kha’ to bear, or to endure. What is easily endured is ‘sukha’
i.e., happiness. Dukkha (du, difficult), pain, is that which is
difficult to be endured. Both these sensations are physical.
According to Abhidhamma there is only one type of consciousness
accompanied by pain, and one accompanied by
happiness. Two are connected with a displeasurable feel
ing. Of the 89 types of consciousness, in the remaining 85
are found either a pleasurable feeling or a neutral feeling.
Somanassa, domanassa, and upekkhà are purely
mental. Sukha and dukkha are purely physical. This is the
reason why there is no upekkhà in the case of touch
which, according to Abhidhamma, must be either happy
or painful.8

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Manual of Abhidhamma - Narada

[subaru]

I can only see 'neutral feeling' if I ask the question, "how are you feeling?"

without asking that question the object of 'neutral feeling' does not arise.....

whereas for pleasant and unpleasant feelings, they will arise on their own, without me asking the question

[Goofaholix]

I can only see 'neutral feeling' if I ask the question, "how are you feeling?"

without asking that question the object of 'neutral feeling' does not arise.....

whereas for pleasant and unpleasant feelings, they will arise on their own, without me asking the question

That's a good observation.

[acinteyyo]

That is beacuse pain and pleasure draw attention whereas neutral feeling doesn't. It requires direction of attention for neutral feelings to become known.

[Spiny Norman]

That is beacuse pain and pleasure draw attention whereas neutral feeling doesn't. It requires direction of attention for neutral feelings to become known.

Good point. We're feeling sensations all the time but much of it goes unnoticed because it's well, neutral. So yes, close attention is required.

[SarathW]

I think when you keep your attention on breath, neutral feelings arises.

[Spiny Norman]

I think when you keep your attention on breath, neutral feelings arises.

Because the feeling of breathing is usually neutral?

[SarathW]

In fact,
I think when you keep attention on the breath pleasant bodily feeling arises but neutral mental feelings.

[subaru]

I think when you keep your attention on breath, neutral feelings arises.

I think the above explanation is plausible

In Narada's Abhidhamma somewhere, "upekkhasahagatam ghanavinnanam (Nose-consciousness, accompanied by indifference)"

For the time being, I think I shall continue to see whatever I can see, and not worry about what I can't see

[subaru]

That is because pain and pleasure draw attention whereas neutral feeling doesn't. It requires direction of attention for neutral feelings to become known.

This is an interesting point.. a very important point.. need several days to investigate this..

[Dhammanando]

I think when you keep your attention on breath, neutral feelings arises.

I think the above explanation is plausible

In Narada's Abhidhamma somewhere, "upekkhasahagatam ghanavinnanam (Nose-consciousness, accompanied by indifference)"

Nose-consciousness arises only with upekkhā-vedanā, but the term refers to consciousness of odours. Consciousness of the tactile sensations in one's nose would come under body-consciousness, which can only be accompanied by pleasant or painful feeling.