And your point is?Vanda wrote: . . .
The difference between samatha and vipassana?
- tiltbillings
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Re: The difference between samatha and vipassana?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: The difference between samatha and vipassana?
The question was ~ What’s “the difference between samatha and vipassana?”
So my point and answer is: they are the same. Additionally, there is one practice. When the Buddha nourished himself with rice-milk and decided to sit he didn’t jump around every few hours to sit under different trees to practice different types of "meditation" techniques.
So my point and answer is: they are the same. Additionally, there is one practice. When the Buddha nourished himself with rice-milk and decided to sit he didn’t jump around every few hours to sit under different trees to practice different types of "meditation" techniques.
“Don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted and carried out, lead to welfare and to happiness’ — then you should enter and remain in them.”
- Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya
- Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya
- tiltbillings
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Re: The difference between samatha and vipassana?
So, what meditation "technique" did he clearly, without question teach?Vanda wrote:The question was ~ What’s “the difference between samatha and vipassana?”
So my point and answer is: they are the same. Additionally, there is one practice. When the Buddha nourished himself with rice-milk and decided to sit he didn’t jump around every few hours to sit under different trees to practice different types of "meditation" techniques.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: The difference between samatha and vipassana?
No technique or device, no embellished vedic practices. No elaborate mandalas were carved out. No mantras were chanted to drone out the world around him. According to the suttas he thought back to his time under the rose-apple tree. Samma sati, laid out in the Eight-fold path as taught by the Buddha in the Suttas. Satipatthana.
He also taught anapanasati as an anchor, and as a way that is helpful in leading to the perfection of satipatthana.
Do you not read what the Buddha taught? Do you not read the suttas? This is the Theravada section of the forum.
He also taught anapanasati as an anchor, and as a way that is helpful in leading to the perfection of satipatthana.
Do you not read what the Buddha taught? Do you not read the suttas? This is the Theravada section of the forum.
“Don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted and carried out, lead to welfare and to happiness’ — then you should enter and remain in them.”
- Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya
- Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya
- tiltbillings
- Posts: 23046
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am
Re: The difference between samatha and vipassana?
"[N]o embellished vedic practices?" Who teaches "embellished vedic practices?" Satipaṭṭhānā? And just exactly how does one actually practice that? And ānāpāna-sati, do you control/manipulate the breathing?Vanda wrote:No technique or device, no embellished vedic practices. No elaborate mandalas were carved out. No mantras were chanted to drone out the world around him. According to the suttas he thought back to his time under the rose-apple tree. Samma sati, laid out in the Eight-fold path as taught by the Buddha in the Suttas. Satipatthana.
He also taught anapanasati as an anchor, and as a way that is helpful in leading to the perfection of satipatthana.
Do you not read what the Buddha taught? Do you not read the suttas? This is the Theravada section of the forum.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.
“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Re: The difference between samatha and vipassana?
Over time some ideas were influenced by brahmanism, that is just the reality when religion and culture within close proximity of each other coexist for centuries. Superstition also plays a part, as well as native religious beliefs. In Tibet for example, reincarnation is accepted. Mantras are another example.
In the Anapanasati sutta nowhere does it mention to alter, control, or manipulate the breath, but only to be aware of it, to understand what it is doing at that present moment.
If you wish to learn satipatthana, there are some great suttas that can instruct you. The Maha Satipatthana sutta and the Satipatthana sutta are two great places to start. These will help if you have a desire to learn how to establish mindfulness.
In the Anapanasati sutta nowhere does it mention to alter, control, or manipulate the breath, but only to be aware of it, to understand what it is doing at that present moment.
If you wish to learn satipatthana, there are some great suttas that can instruct you. The Maha Satipatthana sutta and the Satipatthana sutta are two great places to start. These will help if you have a desire to learn how to establish mindfulness.
“Don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted and carried out, lead to welfare and to happiness’ — then you should enter and remain in them.”
- Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya
- Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya
Re: The difference between samatha and vipassana?
Just to clarify. I do not wish to negate or be disparaging of other practices in any way. I only wish to state what is in the suttas, the discourses of the Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama), and give the point of view as seen and practiced by many of those in the Thai Forest Tradition as well as those who practice shikantaza.
“Don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted and carried out, lead to welfare and to happiness’ — then you should enter and remain in them.”
- Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya
- Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya
Re: The difference between samatha and vipassana?
Back in Iron Age Magadha before the Buddha took to the streets, everyone was doing all sorts of samatha. The prime example are the jhanas and the formless attainments - all the wanderers were already doing these sorts of things, many people were well-versed in their variety, some were being invented/discovered, and so forth.
Then of course, you had different explanations from wanderers about what was going on in the world & how their livelihoods and attainments functioned in that world. Let's call these different explanations "paradigms".
So vipassana is the pursuit of an experiential understanding of a given paradigm, usually preceded by a cognitive understanding. This can be pursued first or second, just as the jhanas can be pursued first or second, given the proper foundations in each case (suitable environment and so on).
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So Buddhist vipassana is the practice of the Dhamma, but there is no "Buddhist samatha", there is only a Buddhist way of doing samatha. In other words, samma-samadhi integrates samatha with right view, which is another way of saying that samma-samadhi yokes jhana and Buddhist vipassana together.
The fourth tetrad of the satipatthana instructions are exactly this, in fact.
Then of course, you had different explanations from wanderers about what was going on in the world & how their livelihoods and attainments functioned in that world. Let's call these different explanations "paradigms".
So vipassana is the pursuit of an experiential understanding of a given paradigm, usually preceded by a cognitive understanding. This can be pursued first or second, just as the jhanas can be pursued first or second, given the proper foundations in each case (suitable environment and so on).
---
So Buddhist vipassana is the practice of the Dhamma, but there is no "Buddhist samatha", there is only a Buddhist way of doing samatha. In other words, samma-samadhi integrates samatha with right view, which is another way of saying that samma-samadhi yokes jhana and Buddhist vipassana together.
The fourth tetrad of the satipatthana instructions are exactly this, in fact.
- "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.
"And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
Re: The difference between samatha and vipassana?
From AN 4:94:
What are the precise definitions of "steadied", "made to settle down", "unified", and "concentrated"? How does one know these states have been achieved?'How should the mind be steadied? How should it be made to settle down? How should it be unified? How should it be concentrated?'