Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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Dan74
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Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby Dan74 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 6:36 am

As for the difficulty of the path, that really depends on the person involved. For some it is seemingly impossible and for some quite easy and natural. Like everything else really.

Having preconceptions like easy or difficult, just gets in the way.

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mindfullmom
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Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby mindfullmom » Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:55 pm

Now, I am experiencing old hindrances that I thought had already been extinguished. It sucks!


Flying Ox my heart goes out to you on your journey to make sense of all this.

The goal is IN the jouney, you don't have to find, or get to it or achieve it.

Rest in the awareness of all the states that arise in the mind. The wanting mind, the judging mind. Include them in your practice. These are the great energies of our heart and mind.

If the old hindrances are back, welcome them in and bow to them with respect. :meditate:

Just keep going :thumbsup:

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adosa
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Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby adosa » Sun Aug 09, 2009 2:49 pm

Hi Flying Ox,

You need to chill on Tilt. There's an old saying that many people will tell you what you want to hear, but a true friend will tell you the truth. Do you still get angry, do you still crave for things, are you still attached to a view of self?

You claimed to have attained realization which would equate to the cutting off of greed, anger, and delusion. Then you're told "well maybe not." Then you unload in what appears to be anger. So maybe you were told the truth here. Isn't that friendship and not enmity? Would you rather you be told, "Ah you got it! Liberation." Then walk around deluded for the next, say, billion eons? Keep practicing. If nothing else it's an interesting thing to watch, this deluded thing we call "mind."


Wishing you the best,

adosa
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183

flyingOx
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Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby flyingOx » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:58 pm

adosa wrote:Hi Flying Ox,

You need to chill on Tilt. There's an old saying that many people will tell you what you want to hear, but a true friend will tell you the truth. Do you still get angry, do you still crave for things, are you still attached to a view of self?

You claimed to have attained realization which would equate to the cutting off of greed, anger, and delusion. Then you're told "well maybe not." Then you unload in what appears to be anger. So maybe you were told the truth here. Isn't that friendship and not enmity? Would you rather you be told, "Ah you got it! Liberation." Then walk around deluded for the next, say, billion eons? Keep practicing. If nothing else it's an interesting thing to watch, this deluded thing we call "mind."


Wishing you the best,

adosa


I’ve developed a really good jhana meditation practice, that’s all. Apparently, I still get frustrated and angry at times, but it doesn’t really seem like anger. It’s like being in a dream state that isn’t quite real. Detached and indifferent bitterness is a good way to describe it. I have developed such a good jhana meditation that the hindrance of anger is merely silenced. I believe that some of the other hindrances have been completely uprooted, though, but then again, who knows, they too may merely be silenced for a time.

As far as tilt goes, I don’t hold anything against him. He was just trying to help in his own way.
You ask whether I would like to be told that I have attained enlightenment when I really haven’t just to be mislead for aeons upon aeons of years? Well, no, that wouldn’t be very helpful, but I WOULD like to get it over with and not have to worry about it ever again. You say that it is all about the journey, well, I don’t much like that answer, even if it is the truth. This is taking so long that it is beginning to seem like a big run around where no one ever attains anything, since it is supposed to be all about the journey as you say. I’m sorry, but that isn’t good enough. I don’t want to come back to this physical realm anymore. I’m sick of it. I don’t want to come back to this crap! This big mass of suffering!
One is encouraged to seek the truth, but be warned if you ever find it, you will be treated as blasphemous.

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adosa
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Re: Effectiveness of Imagined Imagery in Meditation

Postby adosa » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:14 pm

Hi FlyingOx,

My advice probably isn't worth a hill of beans so take from it what you will. But don't misunderstand what I am saying. I didn't say its all about the journey. It's about observing. I personally find the practice of observing this mind interesting and yet, I too get tired of its repetitive patterns. Sometimes its akin to watching a train wreck. It would seem that letting go would be easier than it really is. My point is that none of us should give up. We have to keep practicing. What other choice do we have?

but I WOULD like to get it over with and not have to worry about it ever again. You say that it is all about the journey, well, I don’t much like that answer, even if it is the truth. This is taking so long that it is beginning to seem like a big run around where no one ever attains anything, since it is supposed to be all about the journey as you say. I’m sorry, but that isn’t good enough. I don’t want to come back to this physical realm anymore. I’m sick of it. I don’t want to come back to this crap! This big mass of suffering!


We all would like to reach the Deathless state. The path is laid out for us. But we have to be patient with ourselves, too. I personally don't believe it's a "big run around". I believe its doable but damn its hard sometimes. Especially when we realize all our former escapes really were dead-ends. So what? Just keep practicing. We're all in the same predicament together if that's any solace. Maybe for now a good batch of Metta meditation and action would help easy the pain of Dukkha. It's something I think many of us, myself included, forget sometimes. Helping the other guy out, who is swirling around with us in Samsara, seems to take the focus off our current plight.

Wishing you well, friend

adosa
"To avoid all evil, to cultivate good, and to cleanse one's mind — this is the teaching of the Buddhas" - Dhammapada 183


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