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"Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:41 am
by PsychedelicSunSet
I've been meditating for about 4 or 5 months, and meditating daily for probably about a month, and a question keeps popping up in my mind. "Why Meditate?" I meditate because of my desire to be happier/a better person. But I think this holds me back, because I want to attain something from my meditation. I always hear that you shouldn't aspire to attain anything/have goals with meditation, as they'll ultimately hold you back in your meditation. This makes the question of why meditate come up in my mind. If fruitful meditation comes from meditating without goals or a wanting of some attainment, where is the drive to meditate? I don't think I've explained this too well, but hopefully you can all fill in the gaps, and show me where my wrong view lies/answer this question.



:namaste:

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:46 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings,

The Buddhist path is the Noble Eightfold Path.

If meditation assists in cultivating that path, then that there is the why.

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:01 am
by PsychedelicSunSet
Thank you for your reply. Does wanting your meditation to aid in the Eightfold Path not hinder your mediation by way of wanting? Or is desire used skillfully considered to not have the negative ramifications that a desire such as something like sexual lust would have?



:namaste:

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:18 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings,

Unsurprisingly, the answer to that question lies within the Noble Eightfold Path itself, specifically the second element - Samma Sankappa (right intention).

Right Resolve - Study Guide
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... index.html

Right Intention - Bhikkhu Bodhi
http://www.vipassana.com/resources/8fp3.php

Metta,
Retro. :)

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:22 am
by daverupa
I think you've gotten some conflicting advice on meditation floating around, which is causing some dissonance. Instructions come in sets, rather than in piecemeal items, and so the basic structure of meditation and how it integrates with the rest of ones living is an important consideration.

The whole of sila (conduct) involves setting up favorable conditions for this wholesomely-integrated (samma) effort, and the practice of satisampajanna and satipatthana throughout ones day forms a foundation for transitioning from satipatthana to seated anapanasati(-samadhi).

The culmination is fundamentally the suppression of the five hindrances and the fulfillment by development of the seven factors of awakening.

This is for the purpose of nibbana.

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:09 am
by dagon
"The goal of this meditation is the beautiful silence, stillness and clarity of mind."

http://www.dhammaloka.org.au/articles/i ... ation.html

metta
paul

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:13 am
by pegembara
Thank you for your reply. Does wanting your meditation to aid in the Eightfold Path not hinder your mediation by way of wanting? Or is desire used skillfully considered to not have the negative ramifications that a desire such as something like sexual lust would have?


"'This body comes into being through craving. And yet it is by relying on craving that craving is to be abandoned.'

In other words, the desire to be free leads to freedom from desire.
But regarding lust-

"This body comes into being through sexual intercourse. Sexual intercourse is to be abandoned. With regard to sexual intercourse, the Buddha declares the cutting off of the bridge.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:54 pm
by seeker242
As I see it, meditating with no goal does not mean meditating with no goal. :smile: It simply means that when you actually sit down to meditate, you aren't preoccupied with some other thing besides the meditation or meditation object itself, which takes your attention off of the actual meditation you are doing right now. It does not mean there is no reason to meditate to begin with.

Seems to me that "Don't meditate with a goal" is instruction usually given to people who say things like "I did not have any good meditation today! I was just distracted the whole time and didn't feel what I was expecting to feel! My mind did not become quiet like I was expecting it to become! My thinking did not stop like it was supposed to! What happened?! What did I do wrong! etc, etc." And Of course brooding like that only serves to give you even more distractions. So people say "Don't meditate with a goal" for the purpose of helping people stop the unnecessary and counterproductive brooding over what did or did not happen over that 1/2 hour you were sitting on that cushion this morning. It's not talking about the "big picture" reasons to meditate, which of course is to gain insight leading to enlightenment and end suffering, etc.

:namaste:

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:21 pm
by santa100
PsychedelicSunSet wrote: Or is desire used skillfully considered to not have the negative ramifications that a desire such as something like sexual lust would have?
The brahmin Unnabha had a similar question which was addressed by Ven. Ananda here: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:51 pm
by Spiny Norman
PsychedelicSunSet wrote: I always hear that you shouldn't aspire to attain anything/have goals with meditation, as they'll ultimately hold you back in your meditation.
I think that's a common misconception, and it can lead to a vagueness and lack of direction in one's practice.

As others have suggested it's important to understand the purpose of meditation in a Buddhist context.

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:38 pm
by IanAnd
PsychedelicSunSet wrote:I've been meditating for about 4 or 5 months, and meditating daily for probably about a month, and a question keeps popping up in my mind. "Why Meditate?" I meditate because of my desire to be happier/a better person. But I think this holds me back, because I want to attain something from my meditation. I always hear that you shouldn't aspire to attain anything/have goals with meditation, as they'll ultimately hold you back in your meditation. This makes the question of why meditate come up in my mind. If fruitful meditation comes from meditating without goals or a wanting of some attainment, where is the drive to meditate?

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:53 pm
by cooran
Ian,

Could you please give an exact quote of the Sutta where the Buddha stated this.

With metta,
Chris

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:56 pm
by tiltbillings
cooran wrote:Ian,

Could you please give an exact quote of the Sutta where the Buddha stated this.

With metta,
Chris
That is, of course, not a direct quote from a sutta.

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:57 pm
by daverupa
cooran wrote:Ian,

Could you please give an exact quote of the Sutta where the Buddha stated this.

With metta,
Chris
No such, I think; we can take it in the spirit of Mahayana Sutras, maybe.

Re: "Why Meditate" Question

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:54 pm
by powerofconstancy
seeker242 wrote: [meditating with no goal] simply means that when you actually sit down to meditate, you aren't preoccupied with some other thing besides the meditation or meditation object itself, which takes your attention off of the actual meditation you are doing right now.
This is really the essence of it. Meditation might make you happier, but at least initially, it more likely will show you the obstacles that are preventing your happiness, and give you the freedom to change those. If we sit and want X, Y or Z to happen and it doesn't, we get easily frustrated and lose sight of what we're actually trying to do--that is; develop a deeper understanding of the three characteristics.

I've found it really helpful to stop thinking about goals and start thinking in terms of 'direction,' keeping in sight the end of the road, but focusing more on the steps I need to take right now.

Trust that your meditation practice is doing what it should, don't get frustrated if you have weeks or months where you feel crummy (you'd feel crummier if you weren't meditating!) or you can't seem to focus (you'd focus worse if you weren't meditating!). Just keep moving forward, one sit at a time, one breath after the other.