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Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:09 am
by Heaviside
Jhana4,

Yes, that is a much more polite and, on the basis of listening to most of Brasington's talks and reading a bit of his writing, probably more accurate interpretation. But I think you must admit that there are many hucksters and mountebanks out there.

Tiltbillings,

Thanks for posting the link to the Vimalaramsi thread. I'm sorry I missed it. I did a search a few months ago on Vimalaramsi but came up empty handed. I thought his history of Buddaghosa was interesting, but I am hardly qualifed to jusge its accuracy. I do have a more fundamental question, though. Vimalaramsi frequently claims to bypass the "commentaries," preferring to consult the suttas for authentication. But, in the process, he is injecting his own interpretation. And the Tipitika was written down some four or five centuries after the Buddha's death. So what is the "real" authority? I don't think the arguments of Pali scholars help a lot given the provenance of the Tipitika itself.

It seems to me that even the word of the Buddha is not the final touchstone, but how well X works for me. That said, it is interesting to know what has worked for others. And, as I mentioned to Jhana4, claims are one thing and delivery of the goods is quite another.

Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 5:31 am
by mikenz66
Hi Heaviside,
Heaviside wrote: I do have a more fundamental question, though. Vimalaramsi frequently claims to bypass the "commentaries," preferring to consult the suttas for authentication. But, in the process, he is injecting his own interpretation.
Obviously, as you observe, any conclusions drawn from the suttas, by either the ancient commentators, or modern scholars or teachers will involve some interpretation (and hence some disagreements). I think that Ven Vimalaramsi's interpretations were discussed in some detail in the threads that Tiltbillings linked to.

Since the current thread is about Leigh Brasington's retreats, If you want to discuss Ven Vimalaramsi's interpretations it would be better to do that on one of those threads. Or feel free to start a new thread if you think that none of them are suitable.

:anjali:
Mike

Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:20 am
by Sylvester
Heaviside wrote: And the Tipitika was written down some four or five centuries after the Buddha's death. So what is the "real" authority? I don't think the arguments of Pali scholars help a lot given the provenance of the Tipitika itself.
Hi

Re your question on provenance, I can think of 3 fairly reliable dating methods that work with texts rather than manuscripts or inscriptions.

For one, practically all of the sources in the early Buddhist schools regard the 2nd Council as having taken place about either 100 years or 110 years AB. Only the Mahasanghika source does not give the timeframe. On this basis, those suttas and sutras which can find parallels in the Mahasanghika canon can be assured of an early date. Post-schism, the schools were no longer of speaking terms and it's unlikely that the Mahasanghikas kept up with Nikaya and Agama developments. Those shared suttas/sutras can therefore be said to have closed no later than 100 years AB.

Secondly, we can use the dating of the various Abhidharma material as an indication of when the suttas/sutras more or less "closed". There are exceptions to this , of course, but as a general rule of thumb, we can certainly see that the large bulk of the suttas pre-date the Abhidharma. And there are fairly good estimates of the dates of the various Abhidharmas.

Lastly, when you consider how geographically distant schools share so much parallel material, a very reasonable explanation must be that the parallels attest to an early shared heritage before the schools migrated from the common centre. If you link the dispersion to Asoka, then you again have an event that could not have happened more than 230 years AB (depending on which chronology you use).

Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:32 am
by cooran
Hello Heaviside,

This post from a previous thread may be of interest:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... as#p120448

With metta,
Chris

Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:33 am
by Jhana4
mikenz66 wrote: Since the current thread is about Leigh Brasington's retreats, If you want to discuss Ven Vimalaramsi's interpretations it would be better to do that on one of those threads. Or feel free to start a new thread if you think that none of them are suitable.
:twothumbsup:

Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Posted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:45 am
by Jhana4
FWIW, a friend of mine from my vihara, who is friends with Brasington and who has trained with him told me he has submitted a book to Wisdom Publications. It is currently being reviewed for publication.

I know, I know, at this point that is only a little better than a rumor and it could take a while before we actually see the book.

Exciting still .....

Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:20 pm
by Namkha
I heartily recommend Leigh Brasington. He is a gifted teacher, very clear and sure. He is also just an extremely decent, kind person. I sat a two week retreat with him and I'm trying to figure out the next time that I will be able to sit with him. I tend to be someone who likes poetry and mystery in my dhamma, and that is not Leigh, but I found something very liberating in his presentation of dharma, concentration and jhana as natural processes. "Do this and that happens." Not mysterious, just how it is. I think he is able to teach to any level of practitioner but I think most of his retreats are limited to practitioners who have sat several week or longer retreats.

Metta,
Namkha

Re: Leigh Brasington and retreats

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:23 pm
by Namkha
Jhana 4, your friend is correct. At the retreat I sat this summer, Leigh mentioned the book several times. It is scheduled to come out at the end of 2014 from Wisdom. Leigh described it as a "Brain Dump" of everything that he knows about the Jhanas. He did caution that in his opinion it is difficult to learn the jhanas from a book but he wanted to get this knowledge out there anyway.