Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

This topic will only be of relevance to laypersons who are not yet willing or able to keep complete and utter celibacy. As laypersons, complete and utter celibacy is not required of us. It is ok for us to engage in sex life, so long as it conforms to the restrictions given in the suttas, which most decent people would agree with anyway (partner should be of correct age, not already with another, etc).

I have noticed in myself and other Buddhists, a kind of underlying assumption that sex pleasure is inherently 'bad' or 'unwholesome'. In my case, I got this neurotic notion from earlier Christian conditioning, and not from Buddhism, but I must say that Buddhist ideas about sex did not do much to overturn it. It is only recently that I realized that I have been mistaken for many, many years. Sex is not bad or sinful. It's just another aspect of Nature, just like eating and sleeping. Sex is how Nature replicates itself, that's all. Neither bad nor good, but morally neutral.

I put this topic here in the wellness' topic because along with my letting go of beating myself up for having perfectly natural and understandable desires in the course of having this physical human body, comes the understanding of how much harm I did to myself previously, by feeling a sense of failure every time I would 'give in' to sex desires. The guilt and shame around sex must be a great cause of mental and emotional illness in society, because it creates a terrible conflict in the average person of not ever being able to live up to their 'ideals'. (Until one reaches anagami - which is a very lofty and faraway goal, however!)

Where sex can be harmful, as I now understand it, is in the loss of life-force with every ejaculation of a man. There are literally millions of sperm cells thrown out of the body per ejaculation, and the body imbues the semen with the life-force needed to start a new life. This is why we can feel depleted and tired if we ejaculate too much. But there is actually a way to engage in sex pleasure without this loss of energy. It is by drawing that energy upwards, instead of letting it flow out of the loins. Most men conflate orgasm with ejaculation, but they are actually not one and the same thing. It is possible to have orgasm without losing any semen. There are exercizes that can be learned whereby, at the moment of orgasm, the orgasmic energy is channeled upwards, flowing up the back and ultimately to the brain, then down again through the front of the body, in what is called the 'Microcosmic Orbit'. I believe that this art should be learned by any layperson who is still sexually active, so that they can stop the terrible wastage and depletion of energy (chi, life-force, prana) and recirculate it into their own bodies, to the benefit of health. I cannot see how it would contravene any law of dhamma to do so.

with metta.

manas wrote: But there is actually a way to engage in sex pleasure without this loss of energy. It is by drawing that energy upwards, instead of letting it flow out of the loins.

I have heard that these practices can be dangerous if you dont know what you are doing. If anybody is going to try this checking with some one who teaches chi gung might not be a bad idea.

As laypersons, complete and utter celibacy is not required of us.

Who says? Maybe a if - then is needed in addition. Is not required for what?

Not wanting to nit pick, but...

manas wrote:[T]he body imbues the semen with the life-force needed to start a new life. This is why we can feel depleted and tired if we ejaculate too much.

and

manas wrote:orgasmic energy.

These two terms, life-force and orgasmic energy, are not at all supported by physics. Life isn't a mystical force, and energy is simply an arbitrary quantitative measure of the capacity to do work. I only mention this because these ideas of 'wasting life force' are simply not based on reality, but rather superstition; knowing that might help reduce any guilt felt.

manas wrote: Sex is how Nature replicates itself, that's all. Neither bad nor good, but morally neutral.

When there is birth, there is suffering of the one who is birn.
When there is birth of human child, there is more distruction of earth and other living beings, death of these living beings.

By an scietifical point of view, if humain being will kepp this tendence, in 2050 his nutritive needs wiil grow up by 40% for each person, and so in 2050 peoples will need to cultivate + 2-4 billions of hectares and torture, exploit and kill many much others living beings.

If the one practice well, he will rapidely reach state of jhanas, and when this state is reached, and the one dwell in it, there is no more need to sex or others "primitive" pleasures.

With Mette for all living bengs that suffering due to human race-egoism

Hello manas, all,

This article may be of interest:

Buddhism and Sex by M. O'C. Walshe
Preface
Buddhism and Sex
The Bhikkhu
Ancient India
The Lay Buddhist
Sexual Pleasure and the Concept of "Sin"
Marriage
Sex Outside Marriage.
Sex, Religion, and Anti-Religion
What Sex is Really All About
Sex and Rebirth
Sex and the Stages on the Path
Gaining Control
Conclusion

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el225.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris

Reading the conglusion I have to rember a quote of Ahjan Fuang:

"When we see Hindus worshiping Siva lingas it looks strange to us, but actually everyone in the world worships the Siva linga — i.e., they worship sex, simply that the Hindus are the only ones who are open about it. Sex is the creator of the world. The reason we're all born is because we worship the Siva linga in our hearts."

Hanzze wrote:Reaging the conglusion I have to rember a quote of Ahjan Fuang:

"When we see Hindus worshiping Siva lingas it looks strange to us, but actually everyone in the world worships the Siva linga — i.e., they worship sex, simply that the Hindus are the only ones who are open about it. Sex is the creator of the world. The reason we're all born is because we worship the Siva linga in our hearts."

I prefer worshipping the Yoni.

Well... as long as it makes "happy". Or some sensations of being released from stress. We cross the path often, put are atteched to do not lose our street.

Another saying of him:

"Sensual pleasure is like a drug: One taste and you get addicted. They say that with heroin it's hard to break the habit, but this is even worse. It goes deep, right into the bone. It's what made us get born in the first place, and has kept us circling through birth and death for aeons and aeons. There's no medicine you can take to break the habit, to wash it out of your system, aside from the medicine of the Buddha's teachings."

Your topic reminds me of a story I heard about how old schools educating about masturbation. They literally explained 'Do not masturbate! Cause when you do you leak brainfluid. The seemen from your masturbation comes from your brain, and the more you masturbate the stupider you will get'.

So Dawn is pinpointing something important here. You can, depending on isolated statements (facts or not), make the truth goes either way. Thus missing the whole picture.

Actual I think sex is not a problem, masturbation is not a problem, and none of it is a sin. It's as you wrote, it's a part of nature, your body, and your body craving for pleasure. So, if it is our body craving that causes sex, then how should this be related to the non-sex life of monks?

Would there be much sex in the brain if there have not been mastubation in the youth? I guess that this explaining was not that bad at all but we use intelect to overbridge the message.

Can you explain what craving of the body should be? The body is able to do so?

And to beware of misunderstanding, its not only a matter of being a monk that people abstain from sexual (inter)actions. If one likes to talk in allowed and unallowed mearues, it is also allowed for layman/woman to abstain from it, to take this precept.

Yes, even in the compassionate teachings of Buddhism, sex is unwholesome. It is not possible to engage in or even to think about enjoying sex without an unwholesome mind rooted in greed (lobha mūla citta).

However, not all unwholesome kamma (akusala) is evil kamma (pāpa), leading to the lower realms. Only sexual misconduct is immoral kamma.

Treat fire with the respect that it deserves and you won't get burned.

Piya Tan's article on the Methuna Sutta explains the seven bonds of sensuality.

Thanks for sharing this sutta.

A monastic of many decades once told me that sensuality does not go away, you just experience it differently, and express it differently.

Maybe this is the key - to bring practice to sensuality. I know I get jealous of the chocolate bar when I watch my wife eat it. So sensuality can be experienced in many different ways and this may take some pressure off the sexual act that many of us men in particular think is the only way we can experience life as sensual beings.

There are many angles on this and many ways to perceive it. Especially once one is no longer completely enthralled by sex. In any case letting go of the guilt is certainly a good move, manas!

tiltbillings wrote:

Hanzze wrote:Reaging the conglusion I have to rember a quote of Ahjan Fuang:

"When we see Hindus worshiping Siva lingas it looks strange to us, but actually everyone in the world worships the Siva linga — i.e., they worship sex, simply that the Hindus are the only ones who are open about it. Sex is the creator of the world. The reason we're all born is because we worship the Siva linga in our hearts."

I prefer worshipping the Yoni.

Yes, I am sure you do!