Choosing a Monastery

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 23, 2010 6:39 am

convivium wrote:true. kagyu, etc is concerned with the creation of the subtle bodies, varjrasattva, etc. for the bodhisattva path. http://sacred-sex.org/buddhism/
And this has what to do with "Choosing a Monastery?"
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby convivium » Sun May 23, 2010 6:45 am

there are tibetan monasteries. eventually many these monks might marry, or maybe conduct practices in secret. i really don't know much more about it.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 23, 2010 6:47 am

convivium wrote:there are tibetan monasteries. eventually many these monks might marry, or maybe conduct practices in secret. i really don't know much more about it.
This seems to be coming out of left field. What does have to do with this thread?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby convivium » Sun May 23, 2010 6:49 am

i suppose i was trying to answer your question:
So, you are looking at the Theravada as a "foundational" practice in preparation for?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 23, 2010 6:51 am

convivium wrote:i suppose i was trying to answer your question:
So, you are looking at the Theravada as a "foundational" practice in preparation for?

So, basically, your real interest is in Tibetan Buddhism.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby convivium » Sun May 23, 2010 7:22 am

to the extent that mahayana/tibetan buddhism contains and fits into therevada, and has practices that assist in samatha, and discernment. what will come beyond, if anything, i don't know.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 23, 2010 7:31 am

convivium wrote:to the extent that mahayana/tibetan buddhism contains and fits into therevada, and has practices that assist in samatha, and discernment. what will come beyond, if anything, i don't know.

Tibetan Buddhism does not contain Theravada nor does it fit into Theravada.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby convivium » Sun May 23, 2010 7:57 am

Exoteric traditions are more solid and balanced since they mostly work with the perceptions and energies of the physical plane. So even though it is not uncommon to be visited with various astral experiences during advanced stages of Zen or Vipassana meditation, the emphasis of such schools is to continue grounding back to this earth--to the sights, sounds, tastes and thoughts that comprise ordinary experience. The drawback is that the primal energies that underpin the physical world are only indirectly addressed.

Esoteric traditions, on the other hand, determine to apply themselves directly to the forces that underlie ordinary existence. They reach for the essential nature of the experience of living which manifests as subtle energy and consciousness. The drawback is that similar to reaching too far, too fast, into the psyche as for the fast traditions, esoteric work can reach too far, too fast into subtler fields of energy. This can manifest variously as, for instance, unwanted communication with other beings, energetic imbalances of the body and mind, and uncontrolled effects on the environment and other beings.

The confluence of Buddhism and other mystical teachings in the West is resulting in a blending of these various approaches to spirituality. It is likely that, along with the aforementioned paths, a blending of them which puts emphasis somewhere in between along both axes of the above table will develop as a useful approach for those who wish to remain in a regular lifestyle. http://crash.ihug.co.nz/~greg.c/tibet.html


to an extent i'm interested the "esoteric," but the "exoteric" has been working fine. that these practices and perspectives are always mutually exclusive is a question that still comes to mind.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 23, 2010 8:06 am

convivium wrote:
Exoteric traditions . . .


to an extent i'm interested the "esoteric," but the "exoteric" has been working fine. that these practices and perspectives are always mutually exclusive is a question that still comes to mind.
Kind of hard to take that quote and website seriously: http://www.leavingsiddhayoga.net/emperors.htm
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby convivium » Sun May 23, 2010 8:24 am

absent of the scandal, what aspect of that quote doesn't conform with your understanding?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 23, 2010 8:33 am

convivium wrote:absent of the scandal, what aspect of that quote doesn't conform with your understanding?
The scandal points to a serious lack of balance.

When you start getting one school of Buddhism saying this or that about another so as to make one look good and the other "foundational" or whatever subsumptive, triumphalist, supersessionist set of terms they might pop out (such as hinayana), it is hard to take them seriously. And I do not exclude any school in that observation.

Also, the Buddha did not teach with a closed fist.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby convivium » Sun May 23, 2010 11:17 pm

what do you think of the exoteric vs esoteric dichotomy ^?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby tiltbillings » Sun May 23, 2010 11:20 pm

convivium wrote:what do you think of the exoteric vs esoteric dichotomy ^?
Not much. It was manufactured well after the death of the Buddha.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby convivium » Sun May 23, 2010 11:32 pm

Tibetan Buddhism does not contain Theravada nor does it fit into Theravada.
What are the main dissonances you see of Tibetan and Therevada traditions that they are incompatible, and do not contain eachother?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby jcsuperstar » Sun May 23, 2010 11:39 pm

those two schools have quite a few differences any casual glance should revel them. heres a couple; different ideas about the "goals" of buddhism, different definitions of what a buddha is, different definitions of what an arahant is, different definitions of what a bodhisatta is, different ideas as to what the buddha actually taught.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby convivium » Sun May 23, 2010 11:47 pm

those two schools have quite a few differences any casual glance should revel them. heres a couple; different ideas about the "goals" of buddhism, different definitions of what a buddha is, different definitions of what an arahant is, different definitions of what a bodhisatta is, different ideas as to what the buddha actually taught.

these are definitely differences on the conventional level, but to what extent are these, or what are the incompatibilities in the ultimate or literal level?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon May 24, 2010 3:51 am

if road A goes to point B and road j goes to point F and you want to go to point B it's probably best not to take road J, sure both are roads and both have stop lights and petrol stations and if you're just riding along they seem like pretty much the same road however similarities do not make them the same road.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon May 24, 2010 3:53 am

or here

"“If you don’t know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.” ~ Yogi Berra
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby convivium » Mon May 24, 2010 4:01 am

:anjali: you have a copy of the island too? http://www.abhayagiri.org/main/book/1788/

if road A goes to point B and road j goes to point F and you want to go to point B it's probably best not to take road J, sure both are roads and both have stop lights and petrol stations and if you're just riding along they seem like pretty much the same road however similarities do not make them the same road.
stop harmful action, adopt virtuous ones, purify your mind. isn't that the same teaching in both traditions? is the parinibbana that follows at the very end of both paths the same?
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php
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Re: Choosing a Monastery

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon May 24, 2010 4:12 am

convivium wrote::anjali: you have a copy of the island too? http://www.abhayagiri.org/main/book/1788/

if road A goes to point B and road j goes to point F and you want to go to point B it's probably best not to take road J, sure both are roads and both have stop lights and petrol stations and if you're just riding along they seem like pretty much the same road however similarities do not make them the same road.
stop harmful action, adopt virtuous ones, purify your mind. isn't that the same teaching in both traditions? is the parinibbana that follows at the very end of both paths the same?

it's using the same language but perhaps it means different things, like i said the roads may seem similar but if purify the mind means different things to different people then you may get different results.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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