Shaving the head

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.

Re: Shaving the head

Postby appicchato » Thu May 06, 2010 12:19 pm

I feel compelled to repeat myself here friend...that the holy life is led from between our ears, and not within some clothes/ceremonies...99% of the 'holy life' today isn't anything at all like it was in the Buddha's day, or the way he set things going (at least from what I've learned and experienced)...a sincere monk can (quite readily, I believe) exist with the four requisites, dependent on the laity, and as a recluse, if one so desires (without 'officially' being ordained)...to think that everything depends on someone saying some words, and giving you a robe (which is the way you're coming across to me) is, on the large scheme of things, well, less than skillful...if it's so important, keep at it, and you will succeed...the obstacles you present here are NOT that important...minor in fact...

Wishing you all the best...
User avatar
appicchato
 
Posts: 1600
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Re: Shaving the head

Postby Goofaholix » Thu May 06, 2010 6:58 pm

5Khandas wrote:Yes, it is possible to live some kind of 'holy life' without ordaining, but that is not enough for me. I keep complete celibacy, for example, so I try to do that as much as I can now.
But I can't imgaine to live my whole life as a layman... I just can't do that; I don't have the vaguest aspiration for anything you can get in/from the lay life. It is really very hard to live a lay life, when wherever you see, or whatever you do, just one thought come up your mind again and again: it's useless. It's impermanent, it's no me or mine, so why should I 'have' or 'get' it ? (I know what you'll think/reply: then live your lay life without clinging. But if you see deeply into that, it'll become clear that the whole lay life is about clinging.)


Then you should go for it, I hope it works out for you. Everyone who undertakes such a radical life change is going to have obstacles to contend with, this is just one of yours.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
User avatar
Goofaholix
 
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Shaving the head

Postby Goofaholix » Thu May 06, 2010 6:59 pm

appicchato wrote:and (in Thailand) shaving your eyebrows?...eyebrows?...I 'trim' mine, to keep the peace, but don't shave them...


It wasn't until I lived in a hot climate without my eyebrows that I realised what they were for.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
User avatar
Goofaholix
 
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Shaving the head

Postby Sekha » Thu May 06, 2010 9:45 pm

5Khandas wrote:Yes, it is possible to live some kind of 'holy life' without ordaining, but that is not enough for me. I keep complete celibacy, for example, so I try to do that as much as I can now.
But I can't imgaine to live my whole life as a layman... I just can't do that; I don't have the vaguest aspiration for anything you can get in/from the lay life. It is really very hard to live a lay life, when wherever you see, or whatever you do, just one thought come up your mind again and again: it's useless. It's impermanent, it's no me or mine, so why should I 'have' or 'get' it ? (I know what you'll think/reply: then live your lay life without clinging. But if you see deeply into that, it'll become clear that the whole lay life is about clinging.)

:thumbsup:

I find this very truthful and it is exactly the way I feel, except that I don't want to get ordained. I would like to find a way to live the bhikkhu life without having to get engaged in any religion.
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org

As a sweet-smelling and beautiful lotus flower may grow upon a heap of rubbish thrown on the highway, so also, out of the rubbish heap of beings may appear a disciple of the Buddha, who with his wisdom, shines resplendent in wisdom. -/ Dhp 58-59
User avatar
Sekha
 
Posts: 750
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:32 am
Location: French Guiana

Re: Shaving the head

Postby Bankei » Sat May 08, 2010 8:50 am

appicchato wrote:I feel compelled to repeat myself here friend...that the holy life is led from between our ears, and not within some clothes/ceremonies...99% of the 'holy life' today isn't anything at all like it was in the Buddha's day, or the way he set things going (at least from what I've learned and experienced)...a sincere monk can (quite readily, I believe) exist with the four requisites, dependent on the laity, and as a recluse, if one so desires (without 'officially' being ordained)...to think that everything depends on someone saying some words, and giving you a robe (which is the way you're coming across to me) is, on the large scheme of things, well, less than skillful...if it's so important, keep at it, and you will succeed...the obstacles you present here are NOT that important...minor in fact...

Wishing you all the best...


Very true
-----------------------
Bankei
Bankei
 
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:40 am

Re: Shaving the head

Postby Bankei » Sat May 08, 2010 8:52 am

5Khandas wrote:Hello everybody,

I'd like to ordain as a monk at Wat Pah Nanachat some day. But now I became a bit anxious, because...

I went to a dermatologist, and it turned out, that I have several birthmarks on my head (naevus pigmentosus). There is no problem with them, there is no sign that they will turn into melanoma.
But it is definitely not advisable to shave my head, because if they injured it can be dangerous. So I can’t shave my head completely, not even with a hair clipper, because it can injure them too.

What can I do now? Is it an obstacle to my ordination? Or is it possible to cut my hair to a minimum size with a hair clipper or something like that?
I’ve read this in the Buddhist Monastic Code:
(http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... .ch01.html)

Unless ill — e.g., he has a sore on his head — a bhikkhu may not use scissors to cut his hair or have it cut. The question of using electric razors to shave the head is a controversial one. Because their cutting action — even in rotary shavers — is like that of scissors, many Communities will not allow their use in shaving the head.


Is it possible to take it as a ‘sore’, so I can use scissors? What does the Community of Wat Pah Nanachat think about that (I mean do they use electric razors)?

Please help, because I’m getting a bit mad with it... :rolleye:

Metta :anjali:


These days hair removal cream is very popular - not usually used on the head, but I am sure it could be. It could irritate your birthmark however.
-----------------------
Bankei
Bankei
 
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:40 am

Re: Shaving the head

Postby 5Khandas » Sat May 08, 2010 11:28 am

Thanks Bankei! I will google it...
If I use it once will it make me bald forever, or I have to use it regularly? (if so, then it'd be still a problem)

Anyway thanks for the tip, I'll search a bit, and I can also ask my dermatologist about that.

Metta :anjali:
5Khandas
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Shaving the head

Postby Bankei » Sat May 08, 2010 10:36 pm

it is not permanent, the hair will grow back again - but i think it is slower than if you had shaved it. It works by semi-dissolving the hair. You apply the cream, wait 10 min and then scrap it off. Veet is a good brand of hair removal.
-----------------------
Bankei
Bankei
 
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 4:40 am

Re: Shaving the head

Postby ShinMeiDokuJoh » Sun May 09, 2010 3:57 pm

Dear 5Khandas,

maybe a hair clipper is also allowed:

http://www.rubylane.com/shops/fenwoodstudio/item/RL1083

With best regards
ShinMeiDokuJoh
Pali in Thai Script: http://paliinthaiscript.blogspot.com

Pali Sutta, Gatha and Paritta in Thai Script: http://sutta-sutra-pali-in-thai-script-lette.blogspot.com
User avatar
ShinMeiDokuJoh
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:14 am
Location: Germany

Re: Shaving the head

Postby 5Khandas » Mon May 10, 2010 7:49 am

Thanks ShinMeiDokuJoh!
Although, I think if electric razors are not allowed than this kind of hair clipper is also not used (because their cutting action is like that of scissors).

As I'm searching more and more I start to think that perhaps this won't be such a big problem at all, because there are many people who shave their birthmarks (the same kind that I have), and if they’re cautious enough they don’t cut it. Anyway I will ask my dermatologist about that.

So perhaps Bhante Appicchato will be right:
appicchato wrote:the obstacles you present here are NOT that important...minor in fact...


To say the truth I tend to overcomplicate everything (this is the biggest problem in my practice also, I think).

Metta :anjali:
5Khandas
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Shaving the head

Postby Goofaholix » Mon May 10, 2010 8:17 am

5Khandas wrote:Thanks ShinMeiDokuJoh!
Although, I think if electric razors are not allowed than this kind of hair clipper is also not used (because their cutting action is like that of scissors).

As I'm searching more and more I start to think that perhaps this won't be such a big problem at all, because there are many people who shave their birthmarks (the same kind that I have), and if they’re cautious enough they don’t cut it. Anyway I will ask my dermatologist about that.

So perhaps Bhante Appicchato will be right:
appicchato wrote:the obstacles you present here are NOT that important...minor in fact...


To say the truth I tend to overcomplicate everything (this is the biggest problem in my practice also, I think).

Metta :anjali:


Could be you are overcomplicating it.

In a lot of wats head shaving day is quite communal, and there'll be someone else shaving it for you unless you get good at it, so you'll have to explain each time.

Unless he's gone the guy who shaves a lot of heads at WPN as his job doesn't speak any english, in fact he doesn't speak at all so explaining may be a problem.

I think you are better to go there with the attitude of I have a problem I'll just let people know and we'll be careful, hopefully it will work out. Rather than, they should bend the rules for me.
"Proper effort is not the effort to make something particular happen. It is the effort to be aware and awake each moment." - Ajahn Chah
"When we see beyond self, we no longer cling to happiness. When we stop clinging, we can begin to be happy." - Ajahn Chah
"Know and watch your heart. It’s pure but emotions come to colour it." — Ajahn Chah
User avatar
Goofaholix
 
Posts: 1951
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 3:49 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Shaving the head

Postby appicchato » Mon May 10, 2010 3:11 pm

...there'll be someone else shaving it for you unless you get good at it...


Few things are easier than shaving one's own noggin...nothin to it...
User avatar
appicchato
 
Posts: 1600
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:47 am
Location: Bridge on the River Kwae

Previous

Return to Ordination and Monastic Life

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests