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Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a part - Dhamma Wheel

Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a part

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
SarathW
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Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a part

Postby SarathW » Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:46 pm

Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a particular tradition?

This is just a hypothetical question raised based on various issues due to 227 Vinaya rules.
Is it possible to take 9 precepts (handling money is taken away) without a preceptor or teacher and become a monk myself?
This question also raised based on that modern monks do not follow the 227 Vinaya rules according to what they promised when they ordained.
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Mkoll
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby Mkoll » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:13 pm

Dear Sarath,

I don't think so because the definition of monk is "a man who is a member of a brotherhood living in a monastery and devoted to a discipline prescribed by his order." That discipline must necessarily be from some tradition or another.

You could become a homeless beggar who is a disciple of Gotama the Buddha. I wouldn't wear robes though. :tongue:

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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Ben
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby Ben » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:21 pm

Hypothetically, you could follow the eight precepts scrupulously and devote much of your time to Dhamma practice and study.
Kind regards,
Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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jungblood
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby jungblood » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:41 pm

I need a teacher's support to make progress in understanding the Dhamma.... and that's just a lay practitioner... if I tried to go solo, and full-time, I expect things would get pretty wacky! But then that's just me - I've got a LOT of 'ancient twisted karma' swilling around in my little head... :juggling:

Many bows,
Lucas
'Renunciation' http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... bl036.html
'Trading candy for gold': http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... candy.html

'The more we really know the Dhamma, the more we can let go. Those who know a little can let go of a little; those who know a lot can let go of a lot.' - Ajaan Lee

SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby SarathW » Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:46 pm

Thanks Ben
Don’t you think celibacy is a very important aspect to be in the path?
Sometimes I wonder why you become a monk.
Only think I can think is, that you have the desire to devote your life to practice and teaching Dhamma.
So you can do this without belong to a particular tradition.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Ben
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby Ben » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:16 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Goofaholix
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby Goofaholix » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:23 am


SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:31 am

I don’t think that you can become an Arahant unless you a celibate!
I assumed here in this OP that the objective of becoming a monk is to attain Arahantship.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Ben
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby Ben » Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:46 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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mikenz66
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:05 am

Hi SarathW,

If you don't want to be part of a particular monastery, you might contact Ven Indrajala on DharmaWheel, who seems to have ordained somewhat independently, and ask him for some advice. He ordained early last year: http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=12499

:anjali:
Mike

SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:08 am

Thanks Mike
I missed that thread. :)
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Sati1
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby Sati1 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:17 am

Sati1
London, UK

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)

SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:21 am

Hi Sati
Married lay person can become a stream enterer and a once returner.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Cittasanto
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:02 am

If Becoming a mendicant, just find a teacher you trust to teach you the necessary rules....
You are reliant on a teacher for the first five years as a Bhikkhu and then can go your own way. But in the mean time living strictly by the five precepts and gradually incorporating the eight precepts for daily observance is more than enough.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby SarathW » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:56 pm

Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:
Thus, given the limited opportunities for institutional reform, the only course left open to those few men and women prepared to break the bonds of mainstream Buddhism in their determination to practice is to follow the example of the Buddha himself by engaging in what might be called personal or independent reform: to reject the general values of society, go off on their own, put up with society's disapproval and the hardships of living on the frontier, and search for whatever reliable meditation teachers may be living and practicing outside of the mainstream. If no such teachers exist, individuals intent on practice must strike out on their own, adhering as closely as they can to the teachings in the texts — to keep themselves from being led astray by their own defilements — and taking refuge in the example of the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha in a radical way.

In a sense, there is a sort of folk wisdom to this arrangement. Anyone who would take on the practice only when assured of comfortable material support, status, and praise — which the Buddha called the baits of the world — would probably not be up to the sacrifices and self-discipline the practice inherently entails.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=19803#p277919
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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retrofuturist
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:26 pm

Greetings Sarath,

That all seems like an inordinate amount of effort to go to, simply to avoid alignment with a tradition.

It's important to remember that the path happens within the mind, not within tradition.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby boris » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:35 am

The man who wants to avoid grotesque collapses should not look for anything to fulfill him in space and time.

Nicolás Gómez Dávila

SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby SarathW » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:46 am

Isn’t marriage is some form of bond? So he still may have attachments.
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby boris » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:19 am

The man who wants to avoid grotesque collapses should not look for anything to fulfill him in space and time.

Nicolás Gómez Dávila

SarathW
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Re: Can I become a just a Buddhist Monk without belong to a

Postby SarathW » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:28 am

He called them sisters, that means he did not have any attachments.
It is like a divorce without divorce.
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”


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