Ordination as Turning Away

[convivium]

If so, from what?

[polarbuddha101]

From greed, hatred, and delusion. From sensual passion and all the stuff that make's the householder's life a dusty path where it is hard to live the holy life utterly perfect and pure. Or you could say it's turning and running away from the 'real' world but that seems silly to me.

[convivium]

it's necessary to eat one meal a day and live with a bunch of skinny men in towels to turn away form greed, hatred and delusion? when you leave the monastery does that mean you're turning back to greed, hatred and delusion?

[polarbuddha101]

It helps. But seriously, it only takes a cursory glance to see that the bhikkhu's life is more conducive towards a life entirely geared towards awakening and the abandoning of all craving.

[kmath]

You're also turning away from people. If you want to be a monk, you better get used to solitude.

[convivium]

i thought "spiritual friends are the whole of the path."

[James the Giant]

i thought "spiritual friends are the whole of the path."

My best spiritual friends are monastic friends. Or at least lay people who reside at the monastery for lengths of time.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

i thought "spiritual friends are the whole of the path."

Yes, but spiritual friends (kalyāna mittā) are not buddies you hang out with for a chat, but teachers who instruct and admonish you to get off your butt and do some practice when appropriate, as well as encouraging you with kindness when you're feeling negative. A friend who encourages you to develop unwholesome deeds, words, and thoughts is a foe in the guise of a friend.

A Discourse on Voidness

[cooran]

Sadhu, Bhante!!

with metta
Chris

[convivium]

To get off one's butt by getting on one's butt, literally. i think the loneliness could become bearable if i found a way to step into it and through it; having no responsibilities beyond not doing certain things, and meditating a lot with occasional manual labor makes this seem feasible. i'm not an extrovert so that helps. in certain monasteries i've been to, like abhayagiri, they made it clear that they were all intentionally friendly and outgoing with people visiting and between each other (back then i found that somewhat annoying, but now i can appreciate it more).

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Abhayagiri would be a good place to do a trial run as an Anāgārika. Ajahn Pasanno has a great deal of experience of training westerners, and I have a high regard for him. He was the abbot during my stay at Wat Pah Nanachat many moons ago.

[appicchato]

i think the loneliness could become bearable...

Going into this with the idea that one will be lonely (even if bearable) can be prohibitive from the git go...being lonely and being alone are two (way) different deals...and although we may share many things, in the end we all live in our own little universe...

[convivium]

That's a good point. Some people would say that if you don't have people (or a person) that see you for who you are (or at least relate to your experience in some intimate way) then you're missing out on a basic human need. In some cultures that's the best we can hope for in life, and anyone who doesn't want to be known in this way is just a boring person. Then again people say sex is a basic human need too. Of course, the goal isn't to be a basic human, is it?

[Gena1480]

Bhikkhu Pesala
is Wat Nana Chat a good place to give a try at being Anāgārika?

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

Bhikkhu Pesala
is Wat Nana Chat a good place to give a try at being Anāgārika?

Probably its still good, though its nearly 30 years since I stayed there. Others will be able to offer more current advice.

Living in NE Thailand has some benefits, and not too many downsides, though you will need to be especially sensitive to Thai culture.

Staying at Wat Pah Nanachat

[convivium]

Ajahn Passano is the abbot there and it's true that he is very advanced (Ajahn Amaro left to take over Ajahn Sumedho's place at Amaravati). They work a lot of the day there and they are often very emphatic and outgoing. Ajahn Yatiko is a really nice guy, and So is Ven Cunda. They're all nice enough. The vinaya is very strong there. The one meal a day is good. The trails are good. There was a big wait-list last time I checked.