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Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome? - Dhamma Wheel

Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Discussion of ordination, the Vinaya and monastic life. How and where to ordain? Bhikkhuni ordination etc.
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Still Searching
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Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby Still Searching » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:40 am

Obviously, being attracted to any gender is forbidden in the monk lifestyle because dating & sex is not allowed.
Some transgender people are transgender because they prefer to be the opposite gender, not only because they're attracted to the same or opposite sex.
Some can be Asexual, meaning no attraction to anyone at all and just live a life as someone else because they feel more comfortable in that particular body.

So, are transgender people forbidden from joining a Buddhist Monastery even if they vow to live a pure life and give up everything to be fully committed?
"Do not dwell in the past, do not dream of the future, concentrate the mind on the present moment." ~ Siddhārtha, Gautama Buddha

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:32 am

I don't think there is a specific prohibition, but it might be difficult from a practical standpoint. It depends if the person is post-op or not; if someone was born a man, but now is physically a woman, I don't think that would be a problem at all as long as they had a way to provide for any medications or on-going treatments. If someone had a physically male body but identified as female, that would be a more complex issue.
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


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Monkey Mind
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby Monkey Mind » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:16 am

I am not sure where you are, but in the USA there is also the health insurance issue. In the USA, there is state-by-state differences about whether or not insurance companies will pay for transgender treatments, e.g. hormone injections. So if you live in a state that does not mandate inclusion of transgender treatments and you are expected to pay for these out-of-pocket, then a monastic life will be problematic.
"As I am, so are others;
as others are, so am I."
Having thus identified self and others,
harm no one nor have them harmed.

Sutta Nipāta 3.710

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Cittasanto
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:10 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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cooran
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby cooran » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:34 am

Hello Still Searching, all,

Transgendered people and buddhism
http://sdhammika.blogspot.com.au/2009/1 ... dhism.html

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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James the Giant
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby James the Giant » Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:02 am

Then,
saturated with joy,
you will put an end to suffering and stress.

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drifting cloud
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby drifting cloud » Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:20 pm

The Thai concept of " (ladyboy) might be more relevant here than descriptions of "eunuchs". Are kathoeys allowed to ordain?

Bankei
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby Bankei » Fri May 17, 2013 1:50 pm

about 2 days ago there was an article in a major thai newspaper about the former miss tiffany ordaining as a monk. miss tiffany is a famous ladyboy beauty pagent. miss tiffany still retained her male member but had breast enlargments done. she had these removed and then became a monk. she or he intends to ordain for life according to the article.

i took a photo of the front page of the article and can post it if anyone interested.

Bankei
-----------------------
Bankei

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Lazy_eye
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby Lazy_eye » Fri May 17, 2013 1:59 pm

Interesting story, Bankei! There's a link to the Bangkok Post article here:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... s-monkhood

Bankei
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby Bankei » Fri May 17, 2013 2:01 pm

here it is
Attachments
20130515_0936441405723703.jpg
former miss tiffany
20130515_0936441405723703.jpg (247.64 KiB) Viewed 5857 times
-----------------------
Bankei

Bankei
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby Bankei » Fri May 17, 2013 2:08 pm

-----------------------
Bankei

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gavesako
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby gavesako » Fri May 17, 2013 5:38 pm

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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gavesako
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby gavesako » Sun May 04, 2014 9:53 am

Another related story:

Ladyboy monk's full about face
He grew up identifying as a woman and spent his mother's money on make-up and surgery, but a brief stint in the clergy helped offer Numnow a new outlook

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investi ... about-face
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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Ryan
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Postby Ryan » Sun May 04, 2014 10:29 am

DELETED
Last edited by Ryan on Mon May 12, 2014 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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waterchan
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby waterchan » Sun May 04, 2014 5:02 pm

quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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manas
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby manas » Mon May 05, 2014 1:27 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Ryan
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Postby Ryan » Mon May 05, 2014 2:44 am

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Last edited by Ryan on Mon May 12, 2014 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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manas
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby manas » Mon May 05, 2014 7:54 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Mr Man
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby Mr Man » Mon May 05, 2014 8:15 am


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Sokehi
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Re: Becoming a Monk: Are Transgender People Welcome?

Postby Sokehi » Mon May 05, 2014 1:18 pm

It's a pity that we have to rely on conventions in some way that prohibit certain sexual orientations or genders from ordaining at various places and under differing circumstances. Ah samsara... :(
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko



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