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Upāyikā 2.078
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:28 pm
by kizma
I was reading the translations of the Upāyikā on SuttaCentral when I came to this:
http://suttacentral.net/up2/en/#2.078
A monk turns away from form, feeling, perception, consciousness, is free from desire for them, proceeds towards cessation, has no clinging, and abides having attained complete liberation of the mind from the influxes such a one can be defined a monk who attains nirvāṇa here and now.
The passage seems to be referring to the 5 khandha, but somehow saṅkhāra are left out.
Did I misunderstand something theoretical, is this a mistake in translation/transcription, or is this a point of interest?
Any ideas?
(By the way, I wasn't sure if this was the right forum; feel free to move this if you believe that this thread belongs somewhere else)
Re: Upāyikā 2.078
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:21 pm
by IanAnd
kizma wrote:...is this a mistake in translation/transcription...
Is this sutta from the Pali canon or elsewhere?
Or is there a corresponding sutta in the Pali canon that this might refer to? Need to give a Nikaya reference (e.g. MN 10.9; SN 22.59) if it can possibly be cross referenced. There's no reference to the Nikayas on that page you linked to. And "2.078" doesn't tell us anything.
I just did a Google search and came up with the following:
http://www.suttacentral.net/up/
Apparently these are Tibetan texts? "Collection: Tibetan Texts — Division: Upāyikā (Abhidharmakośaṭīkopāyikā)"
SA 28 goes to something in Chinese. The reference to "Abhidharmakosatikopayika" leads me to think that this is related to someone's take on Abhidhamma.
Some of the pinheads -- err I mean, pointy heads -- here might be able to provide you with a more accurate origination for the sutta.
Re: Upāyikā 2.078
Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:29 am
by piotr
Hi,
Chinese parallel doesn't omit
saṅkhāras (行). So it's probably a mistake either in English translation or in Tibetan source.
Re: Upāyikā 2.078
Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:19 am
by Sylvester
Very good catch piotr!
佛告比丘。於色生厭．離欲．滅
盡。不起諸漏。心正解脫。是名比丘見法涅
槃。如是受．想．行．識。於識生厭．離欲．滅盡。
不起諸漏。心正解脫。是名比丘見法涅槃。
時。彼比丘聞佛所說。踊躍歡喜。作禮而
去。
SA 28 extract
色 = form
受 = feeling
想 = perception
行 = volition
識 = consciousness
It's strange that the Tibetan and Chinese only deal with the monk who attains the taintless liberation of the mind (心正解脫) through nibbida (厭) with reference to the 5 Aggregates leading to the remainderless cessation of passion/desire? (離欲滅盡). But the Pali parallels include the speaker of the Dhamma and practising in accordance with the Dhamma. I wonder why?
Re: Upāyikā 2.078
Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:06 pm
by kizma
Is this sutta from the Pali canon or elsewhere?
The Upāyikā includes a selection from the Mūlasarvāstivāda Āgamas. They were originally compiled to serve as a companion reader to Vasubandhu's Abhidharma-kośa.
Chinese parallel doesn't omit saṅkhāras (行). So it's probably a mistake either in English translation or in Tibetan source.
Sāmaṇerī Dhammadinnā (the translator) confirmed that it was a mistake in the translation (the word was there in the Tibetan version). They will correct it soon.
Thanks a lot for your input!
But the Pali parallels include the speaker of the Dhamma and practising in accordance with the Dhamma. I wonder why?
Which parallels?
Re: Upāyikā 2.078
Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:12 pm
by PadmaPhala
kizma wrote:I was reading the translations of the Upāyikā on SuttaCentral when I came to this:
http://suttacentral.net/up2/en/#2.078
A monk turns away from form, feeling, perception, consciousness, is free from desire for them, proceeds towards cessation, has no clinging, and abides having attained complete liberation of the mind from the influxes such a one can be defined a monk who attains nirvāṇa here and now.
(...)
grazie mille [a thousand thanks]
Re: Upāyikā 2.078
Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:28 am
by Sylvester
kizma wrote:
But the Pali parallels include the speaker of the Dhamma and practising in accordance with the Dhamma. I wonder why?
Which parallels?
The site is probably still tidying up all the correspondences, but if you pop into the SA listing here -
http://suttacentral.net/sa1-100
, you will find SN 22.115-116 listed as partial parallels to SA 28, as indicated by the asterisk *.
From the front end notes on methodology -
What exactly is a parallel?
We use “parallel” for variant texts that appear to be descended from a common ancestor. Often, the texts are so close that this identification is simple. Sometimes, however, there is a less close relationship between a two given texts. In such cases we indicate a “partial parallel” with an asterisk*. This doesn’t imply any particular kind of relationship between the partial parallel and the basic text. It simply suggests that if you are studying the basic text, you might want to look at the partial parallel, too. If you want to learn more about this, see our detailed discussion of methodology.
How are parallels identified?
There are thousands of texts in the corpus of early Buddhist literature, and it is no trivial matter to discern what texts should be regarded as parallel. Texts often agree in many details, and disagree in others. When does a text stop being a full parallel and start being a partial parallel? And when does it become merely a text that bears certain similar features? There are no black and white answers to such questions. Rather, making these identifications draws on the accumulated learning and experience of a succession of scholars. Inevitably there will be disagreements in detail; yet in the main, there is a broad consensus as to what constitutes a parallel. Ultimately, the important point is that these identifications help the student to study and learn from related texts in diverse collections.