Hostility to Ananda

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.

Re: Hostility to Ananda

Postby beeblebrox » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:21 pm

Hi everyone,

This thread is interesting. I shared a poem that seems to be on this a while ago, here. At the time, I thought that it was quite fresh, and insightful on Ko Un's part, but apparently not. I wasn't aware that this issue has been deeply studied by different traditions already.

The attitude towards Ananda, especially what's been shared in this thread, is a bit disturbing for me... not to mention what seems like a kind of nitpicking (more than likely it's just my perception) by the arahants. This doesn't seem to be in spirit of the liberation.

:anjali:
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Re: Hostility to Ananda

Postby Sekha » Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:41 pm

It is most probably the kamma which is inherent to the task of being a Buddha's attendant.
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

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Re: Hostility to Ananda

Postby Digity » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:08 am

Why is hostility towards Ananda even an issue? Even the Buddha experienced hostility from others and he was the Buddha! I think any negative qualities Ananda had were far out weighted by his positive qualities. One of the things I loved about Ananda is that he was imperfect. It made him much more human.
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Re: Hostility to Ananda

Postby beeblebrox » Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:10 pm

Hi Digity, this seems to be an issue because of its relation to the ordination of bhikkhunis.

Also, the issue of whether some people actually hated the Buddha, such as Devadatta, I think is also an important one. From my own understanding (or perception) that kind of questioning would be considered absurd in orthodox circles.

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Re: Hostility to Ananda

Postby Coyote » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:53 pm

beeblebrox wrote:Hi Digity, this seems to be an issue because of its relation to the ordination of bhikkhunis.

Also, the issue of whether some people actually hated the Buddha, such as Devadatta, I think is also an important one. From my own understanding (or perception) that kind of questioning would be considered absurd in orthodox circles.

:anjali:


Hi Beeblebrox. Could you explain what you mean here about the line of questioning being considered absurd?

:anjali:
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Re: Hostility to Ananda

Postby beeblebrox » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:44 pm

Coyote wrote:Hi Beeblebrox. Could you explain what you mean here about the line of questioning being considered absurd?

:anjali:


Hi Coyote,

That part was unsubstantiated on my part. I apologize.

When I was writing that, what I had in mind was that I've seen some people try to use Devadatta to kind of scapegoat some issues. I thought that this kind of tactic was questionable, and the thing about Ananda sort of reminded me of that.

I got a bit impulsive, and should've taken more care... sorry about that again.

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Re: Hostility to Ananda

Postby ancientbuddhism » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:35 am

beeblebrox wrote:Hi everyone,

This thread is interesting. ...


Since we are dusting off this thread, the article below may be of interest.

Ānanda’s Hindrance: Faith (saddhā) in Early Buddhism – By Ellison Banks Findly
Katamo ca bhikkhave asaṅkhatagāmī maggo: samatho ca vipassanā ca. Ayaṃ vuccati bhikkhave asaṅkhatagāmī maggo.

“And what, bhikkhus, is the path leading to the unconditioned? Calm and insight. This, bhikkhus, is called the path leading to the unconditioned.” SN. 43.2 – Samathavipassanāsuttaṃ

Secure your own mask before assisting others. – NORTHWEST AIRLINES (Pre-Flight Instruction)

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Re: Hostility to Ananda

Postby Zom » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:29 pm

I think everything was fine with Venerable Kassapa. In some passages we see even Buddha using harsh words. So - speaking harsh words doesn't always mean that a speaker has some kind of aversion or whatever.

Good sutta to keep in mind on this occasion:

[3] In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html :reading:
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Re: Hostility to Ananda

Postby Indrajala » Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:53 am

Bankei wrote:Thoughts from other traditions also welcome.

Bankei


According to Nāgārjuna's Mahāprajñāpāramitā Upadeśa 大智度論, Mahākāśyapa led Ānanda out of the council by the arm because he was not an arhat. He insisted on purity in the council. However, Ānanda left for awhile to meditate and attain complete liberation (arhatship) before returning. Mahākāśyapa stated all was now well and that there was no animosity between the two men. So, at least in this account, there was no hostility really towards Ānanda because Mahākāśyapa was an arhat and wanted to ensure purity in the council, and after Ānanda remedied the last of his afflictions he was welcomed back in.
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