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John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up? - Page 6 - Dhamma Wheel

John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Textual analysis and comparative discussion on early Buddhist sects and texts.
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Alex123
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:06 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 9:09 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:56 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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gerard
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby gerard » Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:48 am

.
Last edited by gerard on Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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manas
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby manas » Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:59 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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Alex123
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:12 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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daverupa
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby daverupa » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:19 pm


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dhammacoustic
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby dhammacoustic » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:26 am

One thing I'm sure is that the Buddha was a master of satire. All the wise people I've met in my life were all smart and funny as hell. Quality sense of humor could tell you a lot about one's level of wisdom, probably the Buddha was no exception.

I never thought for one second that the suttas were written on the actual words of the Buddha. All the religious material on this planet are constructed and reconstructed over centuries. Say, maybe, 5% of the suttas include actual words from a man known as the Buddha, who apparently lived around 2500 BC. I'm still reading on the Sramana movement, downloaded lots of e-books. Apparently the Buddha was a Jain practitioner in his youth.

My mental image of the Buddha represents a perfected, egoless self, with perfect behavior, perfect morality, perfect energy, wisdom, perspective, perfect calm. Namely, the ultimate human state of being.

Theravada (along with Dzogchen and some Gnostic doctrines) seem to help me on the way with the methods and perspectives they provide.

:namaste:

:heart: namō tassa bhagavatō, arahatō, sammā sambuddhassā

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Mkoll
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby Mkoll » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:25 am

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

dhammarelax
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby dhammarelax » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:06 am

Hi,

Interesting interview, let me ask is there any deep study on the issue of the authenticity of the suttas ?

I read this work about the EBTs from Bhikkhu Sujato & Bhikkhu Brahmali:

http://www.ocbs.org/lectures-a-articles ... hist-texts

It seems a straight forward research, is is not addressing the organization of the Dhamma but whether the EBts are juts a created compilation or not so it might help in the discussion.

On a side note the Iliads historical accuracy was given support by the discovery of Troy by Heinrich Schliemann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Schliemann), some ancient texts do seem to be somehow reliable.

Smile all the time
dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5

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daverupa
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby daverupa » Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:32 am

Look through the Early Buddhism subforum, there are quite a few resources, and threads on this very matter. I'll look some up later on, but am running off to work.

:heart:

jogs my memory a bit...

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dhammacoustic
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby dhammacoustic » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:07 am


:heart: namō tassa bhagavatō, arahatō, sammā sambuddhassā

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Mkoll
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby Mkoll » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:48 am

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

dhammarelax
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby dhammarelax » Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:09 am

Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5

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Mkoll
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby Mkoll » Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:01 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

Sylvester
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby Sylvester » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:20 am

I am hoping that some of the members of DW who are specialists in post-modern studies or perhaps analysts of myths in literature would come out of the woodwork and contribute ideas about the place and function of the suttas' mythic elements. I get the impression that academic engagements with mythic literature have graduated from the old Church fears of literalism (since that leads to a challenge of the Theistic narrative) and are now looking at myth much more favourably as sophisticated literary devices.

One such recent example is Gethin's lovely analysis* of that grotesquely mythic sutta, DN 17. He gives a pretty convincing explanation that the imagery in that sutta is just allegory for the forms of escape/transcendance from the world. I'm not sure if his approach is unusual or common for his circles, but it would be interesting to see how much of the mythic elements can be reduced to symbolism, without stirring up more angst over the literalism of rebirth.

* Mythology as meditation: from the Mahāsudassana Sutta to the Sukhāvativyuha Sūtra, JPTS Vol 28, 63 - 112.

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daverupa
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby daverupa » Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:22 pm

A moderate cross-section:
---

The Mythology of Buddhism
Paul Carus
The Monist
Vol. 7, No. 3 (April, 1897), pp. 415-445
http://www.jstor.org/stable/pdfplus/278 ... eptTC=true

Myth in Buddhism: Essential or Peripheral?
Winston L. King
Journal of Bible and Religion
Vol. 29, No. 3 (Jul., 1961), pp. 211-218
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1 ... id=3739256

Buddhist Naturalism and the Myth of Rebirth
Kenneth K. Inada
International Journal for Philosophy of Religion
Vol. 1, No. 1 (Spring, 1970), pp. 46-53
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4 ... id=2&uid=4

Symbols of Evil in Buddhism
James W. Boyd
The Journal of Asian Studies
Vol. 31, No. 1 (Nov., 1971), pp. 63-75
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2 ... 0&uid=2134

Animal Symbolism in Early Buddhist Literature and Art
Balkrishna G. Gokhale
East and West
Vol. 24, No. 1/2 (March-June 1974), pp. 111-120
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2 ... 9256&uid=4

Hermeneutics and Buddhist Myths: Bringing Paul Ricoeur to Mahayana Buddhism
Carl B. Becker
Soundings: An Interdisciplinary Journal
Vol. 67, No. 3 (Fall 1984), pp. 325-335
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/4 ... 9256&uid=2

Early Buddhist Art and the Theory of Aniconism
Susan L. Huntington
Art Journal,
Vol. 49, No. 4, New Approaches to South Asian Art (Winter, 1990), pp.401-408
http://huntingtonarchive.osu.edu/resour ... ournal.pdf

sphairos
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby sphairos » Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:27 pm

The great work to be mentioned here is the Anālayo's "The genesis of Bodhisattva ideal".
http://blogs.sub.uni-hamburg.de/hup/rei ... t-studies/
How good and wonderful are your days,
How true are your ways?

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daverupa
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby daverupa » Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:36 pm

Another facet to investigate will be the development of jatakas & avadanas, indicating a complicated interaction with surrounding mythoi.

Sylvester
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Re: John Peacock: Will the Real Buddha Please Stand Up?

Postby Sylvester » Mon Dec 29, 2014 1:33 am

Thanks for the listing Dave!

What I had in mind was not the substantive works that you cited, but more along asking if there were more studies of Buddhist myths along analytical lines, such as Kenneth Burke's work on Western religious symbolism or Laurence Coupe's work in more recent myth settings. It's something that Bhante Sujato raises from time to time - myths as utility, rather than literally - but we seldom get the chance to dive into a detailed study of its methodology. It would be nice to see how Myth Studies interacts formally with Buddhist texts, where a rigorous methodology is articulated and applied in understanding the mythic elements that annoy "Western" Buddhists.


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