'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake??

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'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake??

Postby yawares » Thu Oct 25, 2012 3:44 pm

Dear Members,

'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake
[By Stephanie Pappas, LiveScience Senior Writer]


Image

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/nazi-acqui ... 19681.html

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/i ... ace+buddha

A supposed Buddhist statue allegedly carved from a meteorite 1,000 years ago may not be as ancient as suspected, according to a Buddhism expert who argues that the statue may be a 20th-century fake.

The criticisms don't target the material the statue is carved from, which is an iron- and nickel-rich meteorite from the Siberia-Mongolia border. But outside experts are questioning the statue's origins.


Achim Bayer, a Buddhism expert at Dongguk University in South Korea, argues in a new report that the Buddha statue has obvious "pseudo-Tibetan features," marking it as a European reproduction likely made between 1910 and 1970.

Among these features are European-like shoes that come to the ankles rather than boots; trousers instead of robes; tube-shaped sleeves unlike those seen on traditional Tibetan or Mongolian garb; a full beard, which is not seen on Tibetan and Mongolian deity sculptures; an unusual single earring; and a cape that resembles one worn by Romans rather than ancient Tibetan deities.

In their original paper published in the journal Meteoritics & Planetary Science, Stuttgart University researcher Elmar Bucher and colleagues reported that the Buddha statue first came to Germany after a 1938-1939 Tibet expedition by zoologist and ethnologist Ernst Schäfer, who was sent to the region by the Nazi party to find the origin of Aryan language and culture. The statue then passed into the hands of a private owner. [Fallen Stars: A Gallery of Famous Meteorites]

But the researchers also warned that the estimates of the age of the statue — which they pegged around 1,000 years — were preliminary and welcomed comments by cultural scholars.


"I am happy to provide such information," Bayer wrote in his report, available online.

Beyond the origins of the statue, Bayer also called into question the idea that it was brought to Germany by a Nazi expedition in the late 1930s. Isrun Engelhardt, a German historian who has studied these expeditions, told Bayer that the controversial statue likely did not arrive in Germany in Nazi hands.

Bayer suspects the statue was either produced for the antique market or for the Nazi memorabilia market, with the expedition story meant to increase the value of the statue.


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Re: 'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake??

Postby Kim OHara » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:45 pm

yawares wrote:'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake
[By Stephanie Pappas, LiveScience Senior Writer]


... Achim Bayer, a Buddhism expert at Dongguk University in South Korea, argues in a new report that the Buddha statue has obvious "pseudo-Tibetan features," marking it as a European reproduction likely made between 1910 and 1970.
...
Bayer suspects the statue was either produced for the antique market or for the Nazi memorabilia market, with the expedition story meant to increase the value of the statue.

*************
yawares :anjali:

Hi, Yawares,
First I should say I'm not an art expert, though I do love galleries and museums.
I'm with Bayer on this one. I do not believe a word of the origin story, and I think the carving was done in Europe. If I had to put a time and place on it, I would guess 1910 - 1940 and Germany.

:namaste:
Kim
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Re: 'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake??

Postby yawares » Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:45 pm

Kim O'Hara wrote:
yawares wrote:'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake
[By Stephanie Pappas, LiveScience Senior Writer]


... Achim Bayer, a Buddhism expert at Dongguk University in South Korea, argues in a new report that the Buddha statue has obvious "pseudo-Tibetan features," marking it as a European reproduction likely made between 1910 and 1970.
...
Bayer suspects the statue was either produced for the antique market or for the Nazi memorabilia market, with the expedition story meant to increase the value of the statue.

*************
yawares :anjali:

Hi, Yawares,
First I should say I'm not an art expert, though I do love galleries and museums.
I'm with Bayer on this one. I do not believe a word of the origin story, and I think the carving was done in Europe. If I had to put a time and place on it, I would guess 1910 - 1940 and Germany.

:namaste:
Kim

Dear Kim,
Fake or not..I still admire the creative/unique arts of the SPACE BUDDHA STATUE...not like any other Buddha statues I've seen..I wonder what it's like to touch the SPACE BUDDHA STATUE :heart: . I have a gem ring that said the gemstones "Moldavite(olive green color) came from space(found inside meteors only at Czech Republic, the only place in the world!!!)..I love this Moldavite ring dearly..very pretty color..please look: :thumbsup:

http://www.jtv.com/Jewelry-Rings/rings, ... 422b73551e

Image

I got the ring as birthday's gift :heart:
yawares :heart:
Last edited by yawares on Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake??

Postby louis » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:44 pm

Hi Guys,
The experts seem to be missing a major point, a meteorite cannot be carved, I mean it is not like carving a piece of wood!
A meteorite is basically a mixture of iron and nickel, with a few other trace elements thrown in for good measure.
If you mix iron & nickel together you get steel, a pretty hard material in anyone's view. The material would have to have been abraded into shape, i.e. use of grinding and cutting wheels. Under a low powered stereo microscope, any tooling, and grinding marks would be clearly visible.

If you had high a enough temperature, I guess the statue could be cast, this would leave a surface patina that could also be verified under a microscope.
To be honest, in my view, the statue does not resemble a buddha, looks more like a "spaced" out Jesus!........he! he!
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Re: 'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake??

Postby yawares » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:59 pm

louis wrote:Hi Guys,
The experts seem to be missing a major point, a meteorite cannot be carved, I mean it is not like carving a piece of wood!
A meteorite is basically a mixture of iron and nickel, with a few other trace elements thrown in for good measure.
If you mix iron & nickel together you get steel, a pretty hard material in anyone's view. The material would have to have been abraded into shape, i.e. use of grinding and cutting wheels. Under a low powered stereo microscope, any tooling, and grinding marks would be clearly visible.

If you had high a enough temperature, I guess the statue could be cast, this would leave a surface patina that could also be verified under a microscope.
To be honest, in my view, the statue does not resemble a buddha, looks more like a "spaced" out Jesus!........he! he!


Dear "louis",
Well..they named the statue "SPACE BUDDHA" ...so I think it was the thought that count and that's why it got our attention.
And I agree with you 100% " that a meteorite cannot be carved, I mean it is not like carving a piece of wood!
A meteorite is basically a mixture of iron and nickel, with a few other trace elements thrown in for good measure.
If you mix iron & nickel together you get steel, a pretty hard material in anyone's view. The material would have to have been abraded into shape
".
yawares :thanks: :anjali:
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Re: 'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake??

Postby tidathep » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:17 am

Dear Kim,
Fake or not..I still admire the creative/unique arts of the SPACE BUDDHA STATUE...not like any other Buddha statues I've seen..I wonder what it's like to touch the SPACE BUDDHA STATUE :heart: . I have a gem ring that said the gemstones "Moldavite(olive green color) came from space(found inside meteors only at Czech Republic, the only place in the world!!!)..I love this Moldavite ring dearly..very pretty color..please look: :thumbsup:

http://www.jtv.com/Jewelry-Rings/rings, ... 422b73551e

I got the ring as birthday's gift :heart:
yawares :heart:[/quote]

Hi Yawares,

I saw pictures of Moldavite gem rings, I like green gems and my boyfriend will buy Moldavite gem ring for me. I think gems from space are cool.

Thanks for the ring pictures.
Tidathep
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Re: 'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake??

Postby yawares » Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:57 pm

Hi Yawares,

I saw pictures of Moldavite gem rings, I like green gems and my boyfriend will buy Moldavite gem ring for me. I think gems from space are cool.

Thanks for the ring pictures.
Tidathep[/quote]

Dear Tidathep,
I'm happy for you, the green Moldavite gems will look great on your finger, I love your milky complexion :heart:
yawares :smile:
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Re: 'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake??

Postby Jerrod Lopes » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:28 am

I think we underestimate the ancients' ability to manipulate materials such as steel. It's been done with exquisite detail for over 2000 years and more. I come by knowledge firsthand as a sculptor by trade if that makes any difference. I've carved metal with nothing but a hammer and various sharp and blunt tools, all of which were available in some form for thousands of years. Sand used correctly in various ways yields interesting results. The Chinese were also quite industrious in their use of artisans and metal work, yet this looks much more Mesopotamian in origin in my opinion. To me, it looks somewhat Assyrian. If I remember correctly, the Assyrians descend from the north (modern day India) hence the swastika. Though if the experts say it's a reproduction I'd believe them. It just seems a lot more Assyrian and not at all from a predominantly "Buddhist" culture, art-wise. Respectfully..... :smile:
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Re: 'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake??

Postby Buckwheat » Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:25 am

louis wrote:If you mix iron & nickel together you get steel

No, steel is a mixture of iron and carbon. I'm not sure iron and nickel is anything special.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steel wrote:Steel is an alloy made by combining iron and other elements, the most common of these being carbon. When carbon is used, its content in the steel is between 0.2% and 2.1% by weight, depending on the grade. Other alloying elements sometimes used are manganese, chromium, vanadium and tungsten.[1]

According to this website, even chondrites are only 15-20% metal. http://meteorites.wustl.edu/id/metal.htm
Sotthī hontu nirantaraṃ - May you forever be well.
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Re: 'Space Buddha' Statue May Be a Fake??

Postby yawares » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:01 pm

Jerrod Lopes wrote:I think we underestimate the ancients' ability to manipulate materials such as steel. It's been done with exquisite detail for over 2000 years and more. I come by knowledge firsthand as a sculptor by trade if that makes any difference. I've carved metal with nothing but a hammer and various sharp and blunt tools, all of which were available in some form for thousands of years. Sand used correctly in various ways yields interesting results. The Chinese were also quite industrious in their use of artisans and metal work, yet this looks much more Mesopotamian in origin in my opinion. To me, it looks somewhat Assyrian. If I remember correctly, the Assyrians descend from the north (modern day India) hence the swastika. Though if the experts say it's a reproduction I'd believe them. It just seems a lot more Assyrian and not at all from a predominantly "Buddhist" culture, art-wise. Respectfully..... :smile:

--------
Dear Jerrod and Buckwheat,

Thank you very much for your interesting informations...because of you both...I searched and found more space Buddha pictures:

Nazi-acquired Buddha statue came from space
Image

Chingameteorite
Image

An ancient Buddhist statue that a Nazi expedition brought back from Tibet shortly before World War
Image

Buddha statue made from meteorite
Image

Image

yawares :anjali: :heart:
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