MN Session 2 - MN 60. Apannaka Sutta

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MN Session 2 - MN 60. Apannaka Sutta

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:45 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: MN Session 2 - MN 60. Apannaka Sutta

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:43 am

Greetings,

I may as well kick things off quickly....

I think this is a good sutta to encourage the reader to take on board and accept (at least as a "working hypothesis" until the truth can be known one way or the other) the Buddha's position on certain issues pertaining to the Dhamma. I also like the calm, sane, rational way in which he guides the audience... no wrathful fist-thumping on the table there. He treats them with respect.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: MN Session 2 - MN 60. Apannaka Sutta

Postby Jechbi » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:04 pm


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Re: MN Session 2 - MN 60. Apannaka Sutta

Postby Lazy_eye » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:39 pm


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Re: MN Session 2 - MN 60. Apannaka Sutta

Postby Jesse Smith » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:33 pm

There is SO much in this sutta. It contains many repeated phrases, and these repeated phrases may only differ by one word, and these difference among these difference words may seem to be inconsequential. If you aren't reading very closely, it's easy to find yourself skipping over the repeated phrases thinking "yeah, I've heard this before," anticipating the same ending or the same content. But I think we'd be making a big mistake in glossing over these differences. A lover if lists and a decipher of patterns would be like a kid in a candy shop deconstructing this sutta.
In his audio lesson on this, Bhikku Bodhi says the Buddha avoids espousing his own doctrine and instead offers the "lucky throw" rationale. But I think his doctrine is saturating the entire sutta, both in its content and composition.

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Re: MN Session 2 - MN 60. Apannaka Sutta

Postby Lazy_eye » Fri Jan 30, 2009 3:07 pm


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Re: MN Session 2 - MN 60. Apannaka Sutta

Postby Dhammanando » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:03 pm


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Re: MN Session 2 - MN 60. Apannaka Sutta

Postby Lazy_eye » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:49 pm

Thank you, Venerable. I did find it helpful to contrast the two translations, and Note [3] seems to provide the needed explication. The Buddha's argument, if I understand it properly, assumes we agree that at least the fine material realm exists, if not the immaterial one.

Since modern materialism would probably cast doubt on the fine material realm as well, I wonder if the Buddha would have spoken somewhat differently today. Perhaps this gist is: even if you aren't convinced of these realms, assuming their existence will lead you further in your practice, to the point where you can experience them for yourself?

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Re: MN Session 2 - MN 60. Apannaka Sutta

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:12 am

Thanks everyone. Session closed.

Still got questions? Feel free to take them to the relevant forum and ask away!

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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