AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

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AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

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AN 8.30 (AN iv 228) Anuruddha Sutta
Translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi

http://suttacentral.net/en/an8.30

On one occasion the Blessed One was dwelling among the Bhaggas in Suṃsumāragira in the deer park at Bhesakalā Grove. Now on that occasion the Venerable Anuruddha dwelled among the Cetis in the eastern bamboo park. While the Venerable Anuruddha was alone in seclusion, a course of thought arose in his mind thus: [1692]

(1) “This Dhamma is for one with few desires, not for one with strong desires. (2) This Dhamma is for one who is content, not for one who is discontent. (3) This Dhamma is for one who resorts to solitude, not for one who delights in company. (4) This Dhamma is for one who is energetic, not for one who is lazy. (5) This Dhamma is for one with mindfulness established, not for one who is muddle-minded. (6) This Dhamma is for one who is concentrated, not for one who is unconcentrated. (7) This Dhamma is for one who is wise, not for one who is unwise.”

The Blessed One knew with his own mind the course of thought in the Venerable Anuruddha’s mind. Then, just as a strong man might extend his drawn-in arm or draw in his extended arm, the Blessed One disappeared from among the Bhaggas at Suṃsumāragira, in the deer park at Bhesakalā Grove, and reappeared before the Venerable Anuruddha among the Cetis in the eastern bamboo park. The Blessed One sat down on the seat prepared for him. The Venerable Anuruddha then paid homage to him and sat down to one side, and the Blessed One said to him: “Good, good, Anuruddha! It is good that you have reflected on these thoughts of a great person, namely: ‘This Dhamma is for one with few desires, not for one with strong desires…. This Dhamma is for one who is wise, not for one who is unwise.’ Therefore, Anuruddha, also reflect on this eighth thought of a great person: (8) ‘This Dhamma is for one who delights in non-proliferation, who takes delight in nonproliferation, not for one who delights in proliferation, who takes delight in proliferation.’ [1693]

“When, Anuruddha, you reflect on these eight thoughts of a great person, then, as much as you wish, secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, you will enter and dwell in the first jhāna, which consists of rapture and pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by thought and examination.

“When you reflect on these eight thoughts of a great person, then, as much as you wish, with the subsiding of thought and examination, you will enter and dwell in the second jhāna, which has internal placidity and unification of mind and consists of rapture and pleasure born of concentration, without thought and examination.

“When you reflect on these eight thoughts of a great person, then, as much as you wish, with the fading away as well of rapture, you will dwell equanimous and, mindful and clearly comprehending, experience pleasure with the body; you will enter and dwell in the third jhāna of which the noble ones declare: ‘He is equanimous, mindful, one who dwells happily.’

“When you reflect on these eight thoughts of a great person, then, as much as you wish, with the abandoning of pleasure and pain, and with the previous passing away of joy and sadness, you will enter and dwell in the fourth jhāna, neither painful nor pleasant, which has purification of mindfulness by equanimity.

“When, Anuruddha, you reflect upon these eight thoughts of a great person and gain at will, without trouble or difficulty, these four jhānas that constitute the higher mind and are pleasant dwellings in this very life, then, while you dwell contentedly, your rag-robe will seem to you as a chest full of variously colored garments seems to a householder or a householder’s son; and it will serve for your delight, relief, and ease, and for entering upon nibbāna.

“When you reflect upon these eight thoughts of a great person and gain at will … these four jhānas … then, while you dwell contentedly, your scraps of almsfood will seem to you as a dish of rice cleaned of black grains and served with many gravies and curries seems to a householder or a householder’s son; and they will serve for your delight, relief, and ease, and for entering upon nibbāna.

“When you reflect upon these eight thoughts of a great person and gain at will … these four jhānas … then, while you dwell contentedly, your dwelling place at the foot of a tree will seem to you as a house with a peaked roof, plastered inside and out, draft-free, with bolts fastened and shutters closed, seems to a householder or a householder’s son; and it will serve for your delight, relief, and ease, and for entering upon nibbāna.

“When you reflect upon those eight thoughts of a great person and gain at will … these four jhānas … then, while you dwell contentedly, your bed and seat made of straw will seem to you as a couch spread with rugs, blankets, and covers, with an excellent covering of antelope hide, with a canopy above and red bolsters at both ends, seems to a householder or a householder’s son; and it will serve for your delight, relief, and ease, and for entering upon nibbāna.

“When you reflect upon these eight thoughts of a great person and gain at will … these four jhānas … then, while you dwell contentedly, your medicine of fermented cow’s urine will seem to you as various medicaments of ghee, butter, oil, honey, and molasses seem to a householder or a householder’s son; and it will serve for your delight, relief, and ease, and for entering upon nibbāna.

“Therefore, Anuruddha, you should also spend the next rains residence right here among the Cetis in the eastern bamboo park.”

“Yes, Bhante,” the Venerable Anuruddha replied.

Then, having exhorted the Venerable Anuruddha, just as a strong man might extend his drawn-in arm or draw in his extended arm, the Blessed One disappeared before the Venerable Anuruddha among the Cetis in the eastern bamboo park and reappeared among the Bhaggas at Suṃsumāragira, in the deer park at Bhesakalā Grove. He then sat down on the seat prepared for him and addressed the bhikkhus: “I will teach you, bhikkhus, the eight thoughts of a great person. Listen and attend closely. I will speak.”

“Yes, Bhante,” the bhikkhus replied. The Blessed One said this:

“And what, bhikkhus, are the eight thoughts of a great person? (1) This Dhamma is for one with few desires, not for one with strong desires. (2) This Dhamma is for one who is content, not for one who is discontent. (3) This Dhamma is for one who resorts to solitude, not for one who delights in company. (4) This Dhamma is for one who is energetic, not for one who is lazy. (5) This Dhamma is for one with mindfulness established, not for one who is muddle-minded. (6) This Dhamma is for one who is concentrated, not for one who is unconcentrated. (7) This Dhamma is for one who is wise, not for one who is unwise. (8) This Dhamma is for one who delights in non-proliferation, who takes delight in non-proliferation, not for one who delights in proliferation, who takes delight in proliferation.

(1) “When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one with few desires, not for one with strong desires,’ with reference to what was this said? Here, when a bhikkhu is one with few desires, he does not desire: ‘Let people know me to be one with few desires.’ When he is content, he does not desire: ‘Let people know me to be one who is content.’ When he resorts to solitude, he does not desire: ‘Let people know me to be one who resorts to solitude.’ When he is energetic, he does not desire: ‘Let people know me to be energetic.’ When he is mindful, he does not desire: ‘Let people know me to be mindful.’ When he is concentrated, he does not desire: ‘Let people know me to be concentrated.’ When he is wise, he does not desire: ‘Let people know me to be wise.’ When he delights in non-proliferation, he does not desire: ‘Let people know me to be one who delights in non-proliferation.’ When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one with few desires, not for one with strong desires,’ it is with reference to this that this was said.

(2) “When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who is content, not for one who is discontent,’ with reference to what was this said? Here, a bhikkhu is content with any kind of robes, almsfood, lodgings, and medicines and provisions for the sick. When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who is content, not for one who is discontent,’ it is with reference to this that this was said.

(3) “When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who resorts to solitude, not for one who delights in company,’ with reference to what was this said? Here, when a bhikkhu resorts to solitude, bhikkhus, bhikkhunīs, male lay followers, female lay followers, kings, royal ministers, heads of other sects, and disciples belonging to other sects approach him. In each case, with a mind that slants, slopes, and inclines to seclusion, withdrawn, [1394] delighting in renunciation, he gives them a talk invariably concerned with dismissing them. When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who resorts to solitude, not for one who delights in company,’ it is with reference to this that this was said.

(4) “When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who is energetic, not for one who is lazy,’ with reference to what was this said? Here, a bhikkhu has aroused energy for abandoning unwholesome qualities and acquiring wholesome qualities; he is strong, firm in exertion, not casting off the duty of cultivating wholesome qualities. When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who is energetic, not for one who is lazy,’ it is with reference to this that this was said.

(5) “When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one with mindfulness established, not for one who is muddle-minded,’ with reference to what was this said? Here, a bhikkhu is mindful, possessing supreme mindfulness and alertness, one who remembers and recollects what was done and said long ago. When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one with mindfulness established, not for one who is muddle-minded,’ it is with reference to this that this was said.

(6) “When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who is concentrated, not for one who is unconcentrated,’ with reference to what was this said? Here, secluded from sensual pleasures … a bhikkhu enters and dwells in the fourth jhāna. When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who is concentrated, not for one who is unconcentrated,’ it is with reference to this that this was said.

(7) “When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who is wise, not for one who is unwise,’ with reference to what was this said? Here, a bhikkhu is wise; he possesses the wisdom that discerns arising and passing away, which is noble and penetrative and leads to the complete destruction of suffering. When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who is wise, not for one who is unwise,’ it is with reference to this that this was said.

(8) “When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who delights in non-proliferation, who takes delight in non-proliferation, not for one who delights in proliferation, who takes delight in proliferation,’ with reference to what was this said? Here, a bhikkhu’s mind launches out upon the cessation of proliferation, becomes placid, settles down, and is liberated in it. When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who delights in non-proliferation, who takes delight in non-proliferation, not for one who delights in proliferation, who takes delight in proliferation,’ it is with reference to this that this was said.”

Then the Venerable Anuruddha spent the next rains residence right there among the Cetis in the eastern bamboo park. Dwelling alone, withdrawn, heedful, ardent, and resolute, in no long time the Venerable Anuruddha realized for himself with direct knowledge, in this very life, that unsurpassed consummation of the spiritual life for the sake of which clansmen rightly go forth from the household life into homelessness, and having entered upon it, he dwelled in it. He directly knew: “Destroyed is birth, the spiritual life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more coming back to any state of being.” And the Venerable Anuruddha became one of the arahants.

On that occasion, when he had attained arahantship, the Venerable Anuruddha spoke these verses: [1695]
  • “Having understood my thoughts,
    the unsurpassed teacher in the world
    came to me by psychic potency
    in a mind-made body.

    “He taught me more
    than my thoughts contained:
    the Buddha, delighting in non-proliferation,
    instructed me in non-proliferation.

    “Having learned his Dhamma,
    I delighted in his teaching.
    I have gained the three true knowledges;
    the Buddha’s teaching has been done.”
Notes

[1692] Mp: “After going forth, in his first rains retreat Anuruddha gained the meditative attainments and obtained the knowledge of the divine eye by which he could see a thousand world systems. He went to Sāriputta for advice …and Sāriputta explained a meditation subject to him. He learned the meditation subject, took leave of the Buddha, and went to the Ceti country, where for eight months he passed the time engaged in walking meditation. His body became fatigued with the effort, so he sat down in a bamboo thicket. Then this course of thought arose in him.”

[1693] Nippapañcārāmassāyaṃ dhammo nippapañcaratino, nāyaṃ dhammo papañcārāmassa papañcaratino. Mp: “[This Dhamma is] for one ‘who delights in non-proliferation,’ who takes delight in the state of nibbāna, called ‘non-proliferation’ because it is devoid of proliferation by craving, conceit, and views” (taṇhāmānadiṭṭhipapañcarahitattā nippapañcasaṅkhāte nibbānapade abhiratassa). On papañca, see too AN 4:173.

[1694] I read with Ce vavakaṭṭhena, as against Be and Ee vivekaṭṭhena. PED says that vavakaṭṭha and vūpakaṭṭha are alternative forms of the same word. Both are distinct from vivekaṭṭha, “firm in seclusion.” Since compounds with viveka precede this word, it is easy to see how the original word could have undergone mutation.

[1695] Included among Anuruddha’s verses at Th 901–3.
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Re: AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

Post by mikenz66 »

AN 8.30 PTS: A iv 228 Anuruddha Sutta: To Anuruddha
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Once the Blessed One was staying among the Bhaggas in the Deer Park at Bhesakala Grove, near Crocodile Haunt. And at that time Ven. Anuruddha was living among the Cetis in the Eastern Bamboo Park. Then, as he was alone in seclusion, this line of thinking arose in Ven. Anuruddha's awareness: "This Dhamma is for one who is modest, not for one who is self-aggrandizing. This Dhamma is for one who is content, not for one who is discontent. This Dhamma is for one who is reclusive, not for one who is entangled. This Dhamma is for one whose persistence is aroused, not for one who is lazy. This Dhamma is for one whose mindfulness is established, not for one whose mindfulness is confused. This Dhamma is for one whose mind is centered, not for one whose mind is uncentered. This Dhamma is for one endowed with discernment, not for whose discernment is weak."

Then the Blessed One, realizing with his awareness the line of thinking in Ven. Anuruddha's awareness — just as a strong man might extend his flexed arm or flex his extended arm — disappeared from among the Bhaggas in the Deer Park at Bhesakala Grove, near Crocodile Haunt, and re-appeared among the Cetis in the Eastern Bamboo Park, right in front of Ven. Anuruddha. There he sat down on a prepared seat. As for Ven. Anuruddha, having bowed down to the Blessed One, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there the Blessed One said to him, "Good, Anuruddha, very good. It's good that you think these thoughts of a great person: 'This Dhamma is for one who is modest, not for one who is self-aggrandizing. This Dhamma is for one who is content, not for one who is discontent. This Dhamma is for one who is reclusive, not for one who is entangled. This Dhamma is for one whose persistence is aroused, not for one who is lazy. This Dhamma is for one whose mindfulness is established, not for one whose mindfulness is confused. This Dhamma is for one whose mind is centered, not for one whose mind is uncentered. This Dhamma is for one endowed with discernment, not for one whose discernment is weak.' Now then, Anuruddha, think the eighth thought of a great person: 'This Dhamma is for one who enjoys non-objectification, who delights in non-objectification, not for one who enjoys & delights in objectification.'

"Anuruddha, when you think these eight thoughts of a great person, then — whenever you want — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, you will enter & remain in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. When you think these eight thoughts of a great person, then — whenever you want — with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, you will enter & remain in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance... with the fading of rapture, you will remain in equanimity, mindful & alert, physically sensitive to pleasure. You will enter & remain in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous and mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' When you think these eight thoughts of a great person, then — whenever you want — with the abandoning of pleasure & pain, as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress, you will enter & remain in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither-pleasure-nor-pain.

"Now, when you think these eight thoughts of a great person and become a person who can attain at will, without trouble or difficulty, these four jhanas — heightened mental states providing a pleasant abiding in the here & now — then your robe of cast-off rags will seem to you to be just like the clothes chest of a householder or householder's son, full of clothes of many colors. As you live contented, it will serve for your delight, for a comfortable abiding, for non-agitation, & for alighting on Unbinding.

"When you think these eight thoughts of a great person and become a person who can attain at will, without trouble or difficulty, these four jhanas — heightened mental states providing a pleasant abiding in the here & now — then your meal of almsfood will seem to you to be just like the rice & wheat of a householder or householder's son, cleaned of black grains, and served with a variety of sauces & seasonings... your dwelling at the foot of a tree will seem to you to be just like the gabled mansion of a householder or householder's son, plastered inside & out, draft-free, bolted, and with its shutters closed... your bed on a spread of grass will seem to you like the couch of a householder or householder's son, spread with long-haired coverlets, white woolen coverlets, embroidered coverlets, antelope-hide & deer-skin rugs, covered with a canopy, and with red cushions for the head & feet...

"When you think these eight thoughts of a great person and become a person who can attain at will, without trouble or difficulty, these four jhanas — heightened mental states providing a pleasant abiding in the here & now — then your medicine of strong-smelling urine will seem to you to be just like the various tonics of a householder or householder's son: ghee, fresh butter, oil, honey, and molasses sugar. As you live contented, it will serve for your delight, for a comfortable abiding, for non-agitation, & for alighting on Unbinding.

"Now, then, Anuruddha, you are to stay right here among the Cetis for the coming Rains Retreat."

"As you say, lord," Ven. Anuruddha replied.

Then, having given this exhortation to Ven. Anuruddha, the Blessed One — as a strong man might extend his flexed arm or flex his extended arm — disappeared from the Eastern Bamboo Park of the Cetis and reappeared among the Bhaggas in the Deer Park at Bhesakala Grove, near Crocodile Haunt. He sat down on a prepared seat and, as he was sitting there, he addressed the monks: "Monks, I will teach you the eight thoughts of a great person. Listen & pay close attention. I will speak."

"Yes, lord," the monks responded.

The Blessed One said, "Now, what are the eight thoughts of a great person? This Dhamma is for one who is modest, not for one who is self-aggrandizing. This Dhamma is for one who is content, not for one who is discontent. This Dhamma is for one who is reclusive, not for one who is entangled. This Dhamma is for one whose persistence is aroused, not for one who is lazy. This Dhamma is for one whose mindfulness is established, not for one whose mindfulness is confused. This Dhamma is for one whose mind is centered, not for one whose mind is uncentered. This Dhamma is for one endowed with discernment, not for one whose discernment is weak. This Dhamma is for one who enjoys non-objectification, who delights in non-objectification, not for one who enjoys & delights in objectification.

"'This Dhamma is for one who is modest, not for one who is self-aggrandizing.' Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk, being modest, does not want it to be known that 'He is modest.' Being content, he does not want it to be known that 'He is content.' Being reclusive, he does not want it to be known that 'He is reclusive.' His persistence being aroused, he does not want it to be known that 'His persistence is aroused.' His mindfulness being established, he does not want it to be known that 'His mindfulness is established.' His mind being centered, he does not want it to be known that 'His mind is centered.' Being endowed with discernment, he does not want it to be known that 'He is endowed with discernment.' Enjoying non-objectification, he does not want it to be known that 'He is enjoying non-objectification.' 'This Dhamma is for one who is modest, not for one who is self-aggrandizing.' Thus was it said. And with reference to this was it said.

"'This Dhamma is for one who is content, not for one who is discontent.' Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk is content with any old robe cloth at all, any old almsfood, any old lodging, any old medicinal requisites for curing sickness at all. 'This Dhamma is for one who is content, not for one who is discontent.' Thus was it said. And with reference to this was it said.

"'This Dhamma is for one who is reclusive, not for one who is entangled.' Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk, when living in seclusion, is visited by monks, nuns, lay men, lay women, kings, royal ministers, sectarians & their disciples. With his mind bent on seclusion, tending toward seclusion, inclined toward seclusion, aiming at seclusion, relishing renunciation, he converses with them only as much as is necessary for them to take their leave. 'This Dhamma is for one who is reclusive, not for one who is entangled.' Thus was it said. And with reference to this was it said.

"'This Dhamma is for one whose persistence is aroused, not for one who is lazy.' Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk keeps his persistence aroused for abandoning unskillful mental qualities and taking on skillful mental qualities. He is steadfast, solid in his effort, not shirking his duties with regard to skillful mental qualities. 'This Dhamma is for one whose persistence is aroused, not for one who is lazy.' Thus was it said. And with reference to this was it said.

"'This Dhamma is for one whose mindfulness is established, not for one whose mindfulness is confused.' Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk is mindful, highly meticulous, remembering & able to call to mind even things that were done & said long ago. 'This Dhamma is for one whose mindfulness is established, not for one whose mindfulness is confused.' Thus was it said. And with reference to this was it said.

"'This Dhamma is for one whose mind is centered, not for one whose mind is uncentered.' Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk, quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. 'This Dhamma is for one whose mind is centered, not for one whose mind is uncentered.' Thus was it said. And with reference to this was it said.

"'This Dhamma is for one endowed with discernment, not for one whose discernment is weak.' Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk is discerning, endowed with discernment of arising & passing away — noble, penetrating, leading to the right ending of stress. 'This Dhamma is for one endowed with discernment, not for one whose discernment is weak.' Thus was it said. And with reference to this was it said.

"'This Dhamma is for one who enjoys non-objectification, who delights in non-objectification, not for one who enjoys & delights in objectification.' Thus was it said. With reference to what was it said? There is the case where a monk's mind leaps up, grows confident, steadfast, & is firm in the cessation of objectification. 'This Dhamma is for one who enjoys non-objectification, who delights in non-objectification, not for one who enjoys & delights in objectification.' Thus was it said. And with reference to this was it said."

Now, during the following Rains Retreat, Ven. Anuruddha stayed right there in the Eastern Bamboo Park among the Cetis. Dwelling alone, secluded, heedful, ardent, & resolute, he in no long time reached & remained in the supreme goal of the holy life for which clansmen rightly go forth from home into homelessness, knowing & realizing it for himself in the here & now. He knew: "Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for the sake of this world." And thus Ven. Anuruddha became another one of the arahants. Then, on attaining arahantship, he uttered this verse:

  • Knowing my thoughts,
    the Teacher, unexcelled in the cosmos,
    came to me through his power
    in a body made of mind.

    He taught in line with my thoughts,
    and then further.
    The Buddha,
    delighting in non-objectification,
    taught non-objectification.

    Knowing his Dhamma,
    I kept delighting in his bidding.
    The three knowledges
    have been attained;
    the Buddha's bidding,
    done.
See also: SN 48.10; AN 4.28; AN 8.53.
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Re: AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

Post by Mkoll »

It appears the Buddha's teaching of the eighth thought of a great man to Anuruddha greatly contributed to his arahantship.

I've recently started delving into Ven. Nanananda's first work, Concept and Reality in Early Buddhist Thought, which goes deeply into the details of the very important term papanca, i.e. proliferation, and related terms. An excellent work thus far and I'd recommend reading it to get a better grasp of this sutta.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
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mikenz66
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Re: AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

Post by mikenz66 »

Yes, it's a deep sutta.

For more about papañca see:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12375
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=14229
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=17232

Ven Thanissaro has a slightly different take on the meaning than Vens Nanananda and Bodhi. He emphasises the self-making aspect, hence his translation as "objectification".

:anjali:
Mike
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Re: AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

Post by mikenz66 »

Any comments on the eight thoughts as a precursor to jhana? Presumably these are to be seen as precursors, and one needs more than just the thoughts to enter jhana.
“When, Anuruddha, you reflect on these eight thoughts of a great person, then, as much as you wish, secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, you will enter and dwell in the first jhāna, which consists of rapture and pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by thought and examination.
"Anuruddha, when you think these eight thoughts of a great person, then — whenever you want — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, you will enter & remain in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation.
:anjali:
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Re: AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

Post by Sylvester »

mikenz66 wrote:Any comments on the eight thoughts as a precursor to jhana? Presumably these are to be seen as precursors, and one needs more than just the thoughts to enter jhana.
“When, Anuruddha, you reflect on these eight thoughts of a great person, then, as much as you wish, secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, you will enter and dwell in the first jhāna, which consists of rapture and pleasure born of seclusion, accompanied by thought and examination.
"Anuruddha, when you think these eight thoughts of a great person, then — whenever you want — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities, you will enter & remain in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation.
:anjali:
Mike

It appears you are correct, Mike.

The correlative clause rendered by the "When...., then ...." is rather ambiguous. Did BB and Ven T intend to convey the temporal sense, or the causative sense? The "when ... then..." in the text is "Yato ... tato...".

Warder (pp.72, 163) assigns to yato a purely causative function as a relative pronoun, while the correlative pronoun tato assumes the consequential function. I could not find any temporal function being performed by these pronouns. This does support your precursor interpretation, but the question arises - what sort of precursor? A necessary condition or a sufficient one?

What interests me even more is the next set of 5 propositions, ie how a jhanalabhi enjoys his robes, almsfood, dwelling, bedding and medicine, as if they were divine. This set of 5 propositions also employ the same "yato ... tato..." scheme as the preceding jhana passages, suggesting that because of a jhana attainment, mundane things can be a source of delight and pleasure.

Now, where else do mundane things taste divine because of a jhana? - http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=18276
starter
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Re: AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

Post by starter »

Greetings!

I wonder if "papañca" indeed means "proliferation" as in the following rendering:

‘This Dhamma is for one who delights in non-proliferation, who takes delight in non-proliferation, not for one who delights in proliferation, who takes delight in proliferation'

"Here, a bhikkhu’s mind launches out upon the cessation of proliferation, ..."

The would the Buddha be contradicting himself by teaching us to launch out our mind upon the 8 thoughts, and "proliferate" the 8 thoughts? ["you reflect on these eight thoughts ..."]

I also wonder if "papañca" indeed means "objectification", would the Buddha be contradicting himself by teaching us to objectify: "This Dhamma is for one who is ... " or "This Dhamma is for one whose ... ".

As discussed in the thread "The translation of papañca and papañcasaññāsaṅkhā" [http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 67#p312667], "proliferation", "objectification", "prolific conceptualization" are all neutral, which can be wholesome ones encouraged by the Buddha, as taught in AN 8.30.

Just my two cents. Please correct me if I'm wrong. :anjali:
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tiltbillings
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Re: AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

Post by tiltbillings »

starter wrote:Greetings!

I wonder if "papañca" indeed means "proliferation" as in the following rendering Please correct me if I'm wrong. :anjali:
To repeat what Retro posted to you earlier:
retrofuturist wrote:Greetings starter,

I think the following book is essential in understanding papañcasaññāsaṅkhā

Concept and Reality in Early Buddhist Thought - Ven. Nanananda (PDF)
http://ahandfulofleaves.files.wordpress ... a_1971.pdf

Metta,
Retro. :)
You rejected reading this book, it seems, but I would suggest that you look at this very careful study of the Buddha's words, in that it would be useful on any number of levels.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
SarathW
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Re: AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

Post by SarathW »

Is Jhana considered to be Papanca?
If not why?
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
culaavuso
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Re: AN 8.30 Anuruddha Sutta

Post by culaavuso »

SarathW wrote:Is Jhana considered to be Papanca?
If not why?
The second jhāna is described as free from directed thought (vitakka)
AN 4.123: Puggala Sutta wrote: Again, there is the case where an individual, with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance.
Yet this subject of directed thought (vitakka) is said to be what one objectifies (papañca) and is the source of the perceptions and categories of objectification (papañcasaññāsaṅkhā).
DN 21: Sakkapañha Sutta wrote: Thinking has the perceptions & categories of objectification as its cause, has the perceptions & categories of objectification as its origination, has the perceptions & categories of objectification as what gives it birth, has the perceptions & categories of objectification as its source. When the perceptions & categories of objectification exist, thinking comes into being. When the perceptions & categories of objectification are not, it doesn't.
MN 18: Madhupiṇḍika Sutta wrote: What one perceives, one thinks about. What one thinks about, one objectifies. Based on what a person objectifies, the perceptions & categories of objectification assail him/her with regard to past, present, & future...
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