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Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant - Dhamma Wheel

Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

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Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:44 am


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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:46 am


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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:42 am

Maybe a little side-topic but in regard of "nāga. This term can mean magical serpent or large elephant, and is often used as an epithet for an arahant." I had searched to find more information about the meaning (it was about the sutta in regard of the four great families of Naga) as it has somehow a mystical appearence. Do anybody know more about it?
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:51 am

http://thailandlandofsmiles.com/2009/08 ... -thailand/
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13977#p206521
Nak is Thai for Naga... Hence Wat Nak Prok - Wat Protective Naga (or something like that...).

:anjali:
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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:58 am


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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby Hanzze » Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:41 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby Sam Vara » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:41 pm


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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby gavesako » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:54 pm

Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby Hanzze » Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:10 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby Mal » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:27 pm


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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby Hanzze » Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:30 pm

Would you as full awakened being hit your finger with a hammer constanly or live in a mud hole? So why not change the place if this would not make sense?

There is a kind of similar message in the but there are also suttas where the Buddha thought to return (mostly after request) out of compassion and for the safty from new monks (just dont remember the name)
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

Mal
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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby Mal » Sat Sep 29, 2012 3:04 pm


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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:29 pm


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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby Hanzze » Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:17 am

Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby Sam Vara » Sun Sep 30, 2012 10:41 am


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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby Mal » Sun Sep 30, 2012 1:43 pm

I think bringing in the back pain example doesn't help the discussion of this sutta - the discomfort in this sutta is *purely* mental.

Some argue that the Buddha suffered physical pain but was not disturbed by it. This is not the case here, the Buddha is feeling discomfort through a simple social & psychological situation - surely he should be above that!

Maybe the Buddha is not *feeling* discomfort, but "the Buddha felt discomfort" is shorthand for "the Buddha saw that the conditions were not conducive to teaching"?

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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby daverupa » Sun Sep 30, 2012 4:57 pm


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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:26 pm


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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby equilibrium » Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:46 am

The story of "The Bull Elephant" is to illustrate the point of having the "right conditions, the effects will follow".

Notice the blessed one is among a group of people while the bull elephant is among a group of other elephants, the story is similar but have different meanings.

The blessed one being within a group of people does not provide the necessary "right conditions" for the blessed one to prosper. While the bull elephant being among the group does not have the best of what is available.

The story then changes as the blessed one moves away from the group, therefore having the "right conditions" while the bull elephant doing the same seperated from the group.

Then the blessed one being alone and becomes aware of his changed environment, from a group to alone, which provides the right conditions for one to see oneself the difference between a group and alone....."Not hemmed in, I live pleasantly and in ease"

The same process happed to the bull elephant as the bull elephant is aware of the difference between being within a group and being alone and the benefits that comes with being alone....."Not hemmed in, I live pleasantly and in ease".....also uncut grass, undisturbed water etc.

Then towards the end when the blessed one "realized his own seclusion and knowing the train thought in the bull elephant's awareness".....meaning when you know oneself, you will know others.....yet they are both at joy!

Without the right conditions one cannot progress!.....like an apple seed cannot sprout if the ground conditions are not right!

On the subject of the two pains: physical and mental pain.
The blessed one only has one pain that being the physical pain as he is still within the body, the mental pain does not exist as he understands in the mind-consciousness that it is empty.....while the run-of-the-mill person has the two pains being physical and mind, both consciousness.

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Re: Ud 4.5 Nāga Sutta — The Bull Elephant

Postby Mal » Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:35 pm



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