About the 8 precepts?

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Admiral
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About the 8 precepts?

Post by Admiral »

Hi everybody :namaste:

I'd like to practice the Eight precepts while Uposatha...
I understand the 5 first precepts, but I have some questions about the 3 others :x

1. I undertake the rule of training to refrain from
eating outside the time.
Does that mean to just have breakfast, lunch and dinner? Or is this more restrictive?

2. I undertake the rule of training to refrain from
dancing, singing, music, going to see entertainments,
wearing garlands, smartening with perfumes and beautifying
with cosmetics.
As I'm singer in a hardcore band, does this mean that I can go to rehearsals or do gigs while Uposatha's?
And does this mean I can't listen to music as well?

3. I undertake the rule of training to refrain from
a high or large sleeping-place.
Is a sleeping bag a sufficient "lower" sleeping place?

Thanks a lot for the help, I'm still discovering buddhism... :embarassed:
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jcsuperstar
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by jcsuperstar »

no meals after noon

no music, so no singing.

sleeping bag is fine.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat
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Admiral
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by Admiral »

jcsuperstar wrote:no meals after noon

no music, so no singing.

sleeping bag is fine.
Thanks for the answer! :)

-No meals after noon.. waow, okay. I hope I'll have no problems with that, as I've hypoglycemy issues. I read somewhere that chocolate is allowed? It would help me greatly (:

-About the music, the goal is not to feel "amused" or something, right? So listening to music is foribidden is that case, but I'm not "singing" (actually, screaming/shouting) for the amusement, it's a buddhist hardcore band that I created to "promote" Dhamma to young hardcore kids and punks.
Should I cancel a gig we have this day, if I don't use it as an amusement but as something related to Dhamma?
But if it's really a problem, I'll cancel it. Music is highly important to me, but not as much as spirituality.
The thing is that I'm "singing" is the band to help these kids !

-So I'll take my sleeping bag and sleep on the floor (: thanks for the help!
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bodom
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by bodom »

Hi Admiral

I think you'll find this essay as helpful as I do.

Uposatha Sila The Eight-Precept Observance
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... satha.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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Admiral
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by Admiral »

Thanks a lot for that link bodom :D

Oh, and... is your username related to the metal band "children of bodom"? ;)
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bodom
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by bodom »

Admiral wrote:Oh, and... is your username related to the metal band "children of bodom"? ;)
Yessir my favorite band!

:anjali:
Liberation is the inevitable fruit of the path and is bound to blossom forth when there is steady and persistent practice. The only requirements for reaching the final goal are two: to start and to continue. If these requirements are met there is no doubt the goal will be attained. This is the Dhamma, the undeviating law.

- BB
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IanAnd
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by IanAnd »

Admiral wrote: -No meals after noon.. wow, okay. I hope I'll have no problems with that, as I've hypoglycemy issues. I read somewhere that chocolate is allowed? It would help me greatly (:

-About the music, the goal is not to feel "amused" or something, right? So listening to music is forbidden is that case, but I'm not "singing" (actually, screaming/shouting) for the amusement, it's a buddhist hardcore band that I created to "promote" Dhamma to young hardcore kids and punks.
Should I cancel a gig we have this day, if I don't use it as an amusement but as something related to Dhamma?
But if it's really a problem, I'll cancel it. Music is highly important to me, but not as much as spirituality.
The thing is that I'm "singing" is the band to help these kids !

-So I'll take my sleeping bag and sleep on the floor (: thanks for the help!
If I might interject something that is implied here but may not be fully explicitly stated, the purpose of the precepts is to help the practitioner become aware of how to set up the right conditions for practice, and especially for meditation practice, but also for general well-being in one's conscious life outside of formal meditation.

Therefore, use common sense when applying these latter three, for your own personal well-being and for the well-being of your practice. In other words, as regards the first concern listed above, take care of any medical issues as a priority rather than follow to the letter the precept being proposed. Medication (chocolate in this case, since it addresses the medical issue you have) would be permissible and would not break the precept, if you care to follow this precept.

Also, take note of the following from bodom's link. Don't create a problem for yourself where no problem exists:
  • How many types of peril (in breaking the precepts) are there, and what are they?
    There are two types:

    1. causing peril (vera).
    2. not causing peril.

    The breaking of any of the first five precepts brings about peril for the breaker. That is to say, the fruit of such actions will follow one, resulting in, for example, a short life. In the breaking of any of the last three precepts, there is no peril.
What is important are the first five precepts, which help set up the condition of peace of mind. It is tremendously helpful, when meditating, to be able to enter the meditation session without any "worldly concerns" vexing the mind so that you may accomplish the goal of the session itself, which may be to calm the mind or to access insight or both.
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by Admiral »

IanAnd wrote:If I might interject something that is implied here but may not be fully explicitly stated, the purpose of the precepts is to help the practitioner become aware of how to set up the right conditions for practice, and especially for meditation practice, but also for general well-being in one's conscious life outside of formal meditation.

Therefore, use common sense when applying these latter three, for your own personal well-being and for the well-being of your practice. In other words, as regards the first concern listed above, take care of any medical issues as a priority rather than follow to the letter the precept being proposed. Medication (chocolate in this case, since it addresses the medical issue you have) would be permissible and would not break the precept, if you care to follow this precept.

Also, take note of the following from bodom's link. Don't create a problem for yourself where no problem exists:
  • How many types of peril (in breaking the precepts) are there, and what are they?
    There are two types:

    1. causing peril (vera).
    2. not causing peril.

    The breaking of any of the first five precepts brings about peril for the breaker. That is to say, the fruit of such actions will follow one, resulting in, for example, a short life. In the breaking of any of the last three precepts, there is no peril.
What is important are the first five precepts, which help set up the condition of peace of mind. It is tremendously helpful, when meditating, to be able to enter the meditation session without any "worldly concerns" vexing the mind so that you may accomplish the goal of the session itself, which may be to calm the mind or to access insight or both.
Thanks a LOT for these explanations :)
I've no problems with these first five precepts at all ; it was only for the 6th and the 7th !
I'll do my best to follow them however (:
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by Zom »

And don't forget that in the case of 8 precepts "sexual misconduct" turns into "no sexual activity at all".
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by Admiral »

Zom wrote:And don't forget that in the case of 8 precepts "sexual misconduct" turns into "no sexual activity at all".
I'll don't forget it ;) thanks !
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by mikenz66 »

IanAnd wrote: If I might interject something that is implied here but may not be fully explicitly stated, the purpose of the precepts is to help the practitioner become aware of how to set up the right conditions for practice, and especially for meditation practice, but also for general well-being in one's conscious life outside of formal meditation.

Therefore, use common sense when applying these latter three, for your own personal well-being and for the well-being of your practice. ...
Thanks Ian. I think worrying about exactly what a high and luxurious bed is, or exactly what is or isn't allowed after noon tend to wildly miss this point.

Mike
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

This may be helpful:

The Eight Precepts

In Buddhist countries, on Buddhist holidays it is common for lay Buddhists to observe a more stringent code of discipline consisting of eight precepts. These are modeled upon the ethical code of a novice monk or nun, but are generally taken for only a 24-hour period. The first five of the Eight Precepts are identical with the regular Five Precepts (see above), except that the third is changed to read: “I accept the training rule to abstain from all sexual behavior.” This requires abstinence even from actions like hugging, kissing, holding hands, etc.
The additional three are as follows:
(6) “I accept the training rule to abstain from food at improper times.” This means that no solid food (including milk and milk products) should be consumed between twelve noon and dawn of the following day (roughly 6 am). After twelve noon, one may drink any beverage such as tea, coffee, cocoa, fruit juices, etc. A plain vegetable broth, without the pulp, is also permissible. Precept-holders should eat a more substantial lunch than usual (but without stuffing oneself!). With a little determination to resist the force of habit, one will find this suffices for the rest of the day.

(7) “I accept the training rule (a) to abstain from dancing, singing, instrumental music, and shows, and (b) from the use of jewelry, cosmetics, and beauty lotions.” Part (a) means that one refrains both from participating in such activities and attending performances at which they take place. Part (b) excludes personal ornamentation. On a liberal interpretation, the precept should not prohibit women from wearing earrings permanently secured on their ears or, if they so wish, from wearing their wedding bands. It does exclude perfumes, makeup, and other toiletries, but not deodorant or skin lotion needed to counter a dry-skin condition.

(8) “I accept the training rule to abstain from the use of high and luxurious beds and seats.” During this day one should avoid sitting in especially soft, high, or luxurious seats. The typical American bed would not count as “high and luxurious,” but if one wishes to be extra scrupulous one might sleep in a sleeping bag, mat, or rug spread on the floor.

The Eight Precepts, if undertaken, should be observed until the following dawn. At dawn, one verbally relinquishes them – either to oneself or to another person, preferably before a Buddha image – and then undertakes the usual Five Precepts.
http://www.bodhimonastery.net/bm/precepts.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by octathlon »

cooran wrote: The Eight Precepts, if undertaken, should be observed until the following dawn. At dawn, one verbally relinquishes them – either to oneself or to another person, preferably before a Buddha image – and then undertakes the usual Five Precepts.
http://www.bodhimonastery.net/bm/precepts.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
Chris,
Can you suggest what would be the appropriate statements to verbally relinquish them and then take the usual five? thanks,
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings octathlon,
octathlon wrote:Can you suggest what would be the appropriate statements to verbally relinquish them and then take the usual five? thanks,
I wouldn't think that is necessarily, particularly if you've taken the five previously... because whilst you were doing the eight, you were doing the five... correct? Shifting from 8 to 5 you're just dropping a few and making one less rigid.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
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octathlon
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Re: About the 8 precepts?

Post by octathlon »

Yes, right. I was just wondering because that webpage says they are to be verbally relinquished (the extra three, at least) and I wasn't sure how that was supposed to work. Probably doesn't matter! :)
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