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Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:25 pm
by Hunter
I see that in Theravada counries that many people talk about disrespect of the images of Buddha and that some people, like the music artist Akon, are banned from such countries for disrespect. I have also heard of other things too regarding disrespect in theravada countires. So what im wondering is, what constitutes disrespect towards an image of Buddha and what would the consequences be?

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:44 pm
by jcsuperstar
pointing your feet at the buddha, being naked in front of the buddha things like that. mostly people will just think youre an a@#hole, uncultured, rude etc

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:49 pm
by Hunter
But are there any Karmic Consequences? Did Buddha ever talk about this subject or is it not really of importance. The way I look at it is that the image of a Buddha represents his qualities and his teachings and should therefore be respected. I know that there are many people out there who have images of Buddha adorning their house and use the statues for decoration. Im sure the same people have also pointed their feet at the statue, and been naked around the statue sense they see it as decoration. What would happen to them? Would they have severe consequences or do they have to intend to be disrespectful?

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:57 pm
by jcsuperstar
weeeelllll there were no Buddha images at the time of the Buddha so he never taught about them. i think we have a thread going on right now about this also maybe you can look into that one see what others think. basically though your mental state determines everything so it is with mind that you make wholesome or unwholesome kamma.

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:10 pm
by Monkey Mind
Okay, I couldn't immediately find the other thread you mentioned, so I will ask my question here. I was gifted a coffee mug with an image of Buddha (face of a statue), and a quote from the Dhammapada. It is a very pretty mug. I received some feedback from Tibetan practitioners that the mug might be offensive to some traditions. What about the Theravada crowd? Will people think I am "an a@#hole, uncultured, rude etc"? Or is it not a big deal from the Theravadan POV?

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:37 pm
by jcsuperstar
theravada isnt one big crowd, it would depend on if youre spending time with certain ethic buddhists, many american buddhists wouldnt care though. i wouldnt

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:08 pm
by Modus.Ponens
I don't see how a mug with the image of the Buddha would be disrespectful.

The Buddha talked about this. in the Vinaya it is said that he didn't want anyone to build images of him.

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:49 pm
by Hunter
Modus could you post the vinaya where Buddha talks about having no images of him. I have heard of this but I could never find it. Thanks!

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:50 pm
by tiltbillings
Hunter wrote:I see that in Theravada counries that many people talk about disrespect of the images of Buddha and that some people, like the music artist Akon, are banned from such countries for disrespect. I have also heard of other things too regarding disrespect in theravada countires. So what im wondering is, what constitutes disrespect towards an image of Buddha and what would the consequences be?
When I was in Thailand in the mid 70's a couple Mormon missionary guys thought it would be cool have their photo taken sitting on one of Thailand's giant Buddha statues. They got six months in a fine local lock-up, which is a good wake up call to the _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Mormon church to train these dumb kids they send out their to be a bit more culturaly sensitive.

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:19 pm
by Modus.Ponens
Hunter wrote:Modus could you post the vinaya where Buddha talks about having no images of him. I have heard of this but I could never find it. Thanks!
I don't know where it is in the vinaya. Maybe other members can find it. The best I found was this:

J. C. Huntington, who claims that the Buddha image had come into being in Buddha's own lifetime, quotes a passage from the Vinaya of the Sarvastivadins in his Studies in Buddhist Art of South Asia under "The Origin of the Buddha Image". The passage is an indirect injunction against his image making, but the words used in it comprise as much a sanction for it. In the passage, Anathapindika asks the Great Lord," World honored one, if images of yours are not allowed to be made, pray, may we not at least make images of Bodhisattvas in attendance upon you?" The Buddha gives his assent to it

I wonder if this passage is found in the Theravada Vinaya. I always thought it was from the Theravada Vinaya.

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:09 pm
by tiltbillings
Modus.Ponens wrote:
I wonder if this passage is found in the Theravada Vinaya. I always thought it was from the Theravada Vinaya.
Not that I have ever seen.

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:50 pm
by mikenz66
Monkey Mind wrote:Okay, I couldn't immediately find the other thread you mentioned,
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4655" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:00 pm
by kc2dpt
Hunter wrote:So what im wondering is, what constitutes disrespect towards an image of Buddha and what would the consequences be?
A disrespectful attitude will have consequences, such as ending up close-minded to teachings you might hear.

If a teacher thinks you are disrespectful, either through things you say or things you do, he might be less inclined to help you; he may feel his time is better spent elsewhere. Or he may not care. It depends on the teacher.

Then there are cultural norms. This has nothing to do with Buddhism and everything to do with people growing up in different places. If you do something which another culture considers a sign of disrespect, such as pointing your feet at a Buddha image, they might become angry, or they might ignore you, or they might pay it no mind since you are from a different culture. It would depend in the individual.

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 12:28 am
by mikenz66
Hi Peter,
Peter wrote: If a teacher thinks you are disrespectful, either through things you say or things you do, he might be less inclined to help you; he may feel his time is better spent elsewhere. Or he may not care. It depends on the teacher.
This is a very good point that works on various levels.

We recently imported a new teacher from Thailand. In our conversations he has said he can tell I'm serious because I do my best to obey the conventions, to be respectful, and so on. On a recent retreat I asked him how he could tell whether I was doing something correctly (I don't recall what it was exactly) and he said he could just tell by looking at how I moved and behaved. There was no need to ask me questions about it.

Furthermore, many of these conventions are useful aids to mindfulness. One bows when one enters the hall. One tries to remember not to talk loudly or harshly, to pay respect to the monks and the older people. All really useful for refining one's attitude and mindfulness.

And, of course, JC puts it well:
jcsuperstar wrote:pointing your feet at the buddha, being naked in front of the buddha things like that. mostly people will just think youre an a@#hole, uncultured, rude etc
And you won't get much in the way of good interactions if you are see as an a@#hole...

Mike

Re: Disrespect

Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:00 am
by withoutcolour
Gee I hope being naked in front of a Buddha statue isn't bad because my five Buddha statues watch me get dressed every day!!! :popcorn:

Anyway. The Buddha image isn't really the Buddha, don't be too attached to the image.
Obviously be respectful.
As mentioned before, in certain countries you shouldn't point your feet at the Buddha or take photos with it.
And again, Buddha never wanted statues erected of him, or to be worshiped really. The point of a Buddha statue, at least the way I was taught, is to remind us to be mindful, compassionate, and of the Buddha's teachings. Also, I was taught that bowing at statues of the Buddha is representation of bowing at one's own potential to be a Buddha, one's own compassion and wisdom, and one's potential attainments.

Bottom line is, in public just follow the local customs as to what's respectful.

-wc