Hello all,
"Even in the Theravada collection of Suttas, there is a small but substantial body of evidence to support the idea of such a between-lives state, with the gandhabba as a kind of mutable, restless 'spirit' seeking out a new rebirth to 'fall' into" (Harvey, 1995: 98-108).
(pages 105 to 108 in this preview of The Selfless Mind by Brian Peter Harvey).
The Ghandabba Spirit-Being of the Intermediary Existence
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=rcN ... #PPA104,M1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
metta
Chris
OMG it's a rebirth thread
Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
- Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread
Chris that was a wonderful read, thank you!
Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread
Hi Craigclw_uk wrote: One problem i find though with explanations of continuation is the "rebirth" linking consciousness. Isnt consciounsness dependent on Name and Form so i find it hard to see how a rebirth linking consciouness could exsist because it would need name and form which would mean that name and form get taken into another existence after physical death?
Anyone who could clear this up for me i would be very grateful
In the suttas, there are only six types of consciousness. Further, the word consciousness comes from the Pali 'vinnana', which means 'direct knowing'. Thus consciousness implies 'cognition' or 'knowing', namely via the eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body & mind. Also, as you said, consciousness required body-mind to function. Buddha said in MN 38, without a sense organ, there is no arising of consciousness.
With metta
Element
Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread
DrolmaDrolma wrote:...the skandhas are purely conditioned out of craving.
This is what I think, please feel free to correct me, everyone.
You know I am always happy to correct you.
Buddha had no craving but still had khandas.
Khandas arise from the elements.
With metta
E
Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread
I do not recall Buddha did not teach like this. Buddha said consciousness was dependent on a sense organ. However, the element of consciousness can transfer from life to life via the genetic programming with sperm and ovum. Buddha said gandhabba were fragrances in flowers. These are the same as reproductive seeds, delivered by the birds & the bees. Given they have within them the power to generate or create life, they are 'gods'.retrofuturist wrote:There is a physical base for consciousness, but the physical base of consciousness is subject to impermanence (aniccata) too. If we accept that consciousness is not itself physical, yet that it is dependent on the physical, we can also accept that consciousness needn't be constrained by the laws of the physical universe.
With metta
Element
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Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread
In a dream bardo, there is a sense of time and space (and therefore location), if I dream about it (if my dream is vivid and lucid enough). That "sense of time and space," would be a property of that bardo, having nothing to do with time and space in the waking world, though the two are certainly comparable (in terms of the apparent skandhas).Drolma wrote:Hi Individual,Individual wrote:Not a "place", of course, because "location" is a property of this bardo. Right? Being another state of mind, though, it could be compared to a place.Drolma wrote:If you listen closely to TB Venerables and read the teachings carefully, they speak of "birth" in the bardo. The bardo thodol is another state of mind of course, not a place. This birth could also be stated as "becoming" in the bardo state. So it's not in conflict with the Theravadan approach as far as I can tell. The intermediary state and subtle body must arise simultaneously with the other two aformentioned factors for conception to occur.
No, there's no location property. It's like when you're in the bardo of dreaming. Where are you?
Element, based on your definition of the mechanism for rebirth, if I don't procreate, this being's (what could be called my) consciousness is not reborn.Element wrote:I do not recall Buddha did not teach like this. Buddha said consciousness was dependent on a sense organ. However, the element of consciousness can transfer from life to life via the genetic programming with sperm and ovum.retrofuturist wrote:There is a physical base for consciousness, but the physical base of consciousness is subject to impermanence (aniccata) too. If we accept that consciousness is not itself physical, yet that it is dependent on the physical, we can also accept that consciousness needn't be constrained by the laws of the physical universe.
With metta ,
Individual
Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread
Hi,
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=re-&db=luna" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Rebirth" and "again birth" means exactly the same, since prefix "re-" comes from Latin and indicates repetition:Peter wrote:I heard somewhere he did not teach "rebirth" but rather "again birth" as in "For those who have not made an end to craving, after death there will again be birth."
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=re-&db=luna" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...
- Ngawang Drolma.
- Posts: 805
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm
Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread
This continues to be a point of confusion for me. How can skandhas be anything but conditioned? Or should I say, how is it possible that the Buddha conducted his enlightened activity while still bound by skandhas that were conditioned by old karma? Not that I want to take this too far off the birth-again topic.Element wrote:DrolmaDrolma wrote:...the skandhas are purely conditioned out of craving.
This is what I think, please feel free to correct me, everyone.
You know I am always happy to correct you.
Buddha had no craving but still had khandas.
Khandas arise from the elements.
With metta
E
- Ngawang Drolma.
- Posts: 805
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm
Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread
Have a good workday. I'll be pondering post-mortem continuance and pure/conditioned skandhas in the meatimeElement wrote:OMG. I must earn a living and go to work.
- Ngawang Drolma.
- Posts: 805
- Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:38 pm
Re: OMG it's a rebirth thread
I think I'm getting you now IndividualIn a dream bardo, there is a sense of time and space (and therefore location), if I dream about it (if my dream is vivid and lucid enough). That "sense of time and space," would be a property of that bardo, having nothing to do with time and space in the waking world, though the two are certainly comparable (in terms of the apparent skandhas).
If you're asking if the bardo of dying is as "real" as the bardo of dreaming, bardo of becoming, bardo of present lives, etc. Then yes, it has locality in the sense that it's an experience that we perceive as real. I hope that helps.
Best,
Drolma