Comtemplating and reflecting

[oak1]

Dear Dhamma brothers and sisters,

Currently I am reading 'The Four Noble Truths' by Ajahn Sumedho and I am having difficulty getting the meaning of the verbs 'contemplating' and 'reflecting'. I associate both with thinking whereas I am reasonably sure that that is not what is meant.
My closest guess is that it is a kind of meditative experimenting but the following passage makes me question that because there seems to be no need for a budha to experiment anymore 'A Buddha mind is a reflective mind that knows things as they are.'

Thank you for your help!

Best wishes

[paul]

"Similarly, as we noted in Chapter One, when the arahant after full awakening engages in right mindfulness, it’s with a sense of being disjoined from body, feelings, mind, and mental qualities. At the same time, he/she continues to engage in appropriate attention. Although the purpose now is different from that of an unawakened person, there is a purpose nonetheless.
“An arahant should attend in an appropriate way to these five clinging- aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self. Although, for an arahant, there is nothing further to do, and nothing to add to what has been done, still these things—when developed & pursued—lead both to a pleasant abiding in the here-&-now and to mindfulness & alertness.” — SN 22:122
So even though arahants have completed the duties and tasks associated with the four noble truths—and have gained access to an unconditioned awareness outside of the dimension of the six senses—their attention, when sensitive to the world of the six senses, is still a purposeful activity."
-'Right Mindfulness', Thanissaro Bikkhu.

[oak1]

"Similarly, as we noted in Chapter One, when the arahant after full awakening engages in right mindfulness, it’s with a sense of being disjoined from body, feelings, mind, and mental qualities. At the same time, he/she continues to engage in appropriate attention. Although the purpose now is different from that of an unawakened person, there is a purpose nonetheless.
“An arahant should attend in an appropriate way to these five clinging- aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self. Although, for an arahant, there is nothing further to do, and nothing to add to what has been done, still these things—when developed & pursued—lead both to a pleasant abiding in the here-&-now and to mindfulness & alertness.” — SN 22:122
So even though arahants have completed the duties and tasks associated with the four noble truths—and have gained access to an unconditioned awareness outside of the dimension of the six senses—their attention, when sensitive to the world of the six senses, is still a purposeful activity."
-'Right Mindfulness', Thanissaro Bikkhu.

Very interesting, thank you. Still I feel like meditative experimentation doesn't quite fit, since arahants have already seen truth and therefore don't need to keep experimenting but rather keep seeing the truth. That is how I interpret it at least.

[bodom]

Dear Dhamma brothers and sisters,

Currently I am reading 'The Four Noble Truths' by Ajahn Sumedho and I am having difficulty getting the meaning of the verbs 'contemplating' and 'reflecting'. I associate both with thinking whereas I am reasonably sure that that is not what is meant....

What's wrong with thinking?

[Crazy cloud]

Let objects reflect in the stillness-mirror of awareness and contemplate whatever arises ..

[Bakmoon]

Dear Dhamma brothers and sisters,

Currently I am reading 'The Four Noble Truths' by Ajahn Sumedho and I am having difficulty getting the meaning of the verbs 'contemplating' and 'reflecting'. I associate both with thinking whereas I am reasonably sure that that is not what is meant.
My closest guess is that it is a kind of meditative experimenting but the following passage makes me question that because there seems to be no need for a budha to experiment anymore 'A Buddha mind is a reflective mind that knows things as they are.'

Thank you for your help!

Best wishes

The Pali word usually translated as contemplation in a meditative context is the term Anupassana, and that word doesn't really mean to think about something. It derives from the root verb Passati, which means to see, and the prefix Anu- which indicates either repeated action or (more likely in this case) continuous action, so it really means something more like watching or observing.

I haven't read much by Ajahn Sumedho so I don't know what he means by reflective, but maybe he means it literally, like the mind of a Buddha being like a mirror that reflects things as they are, rather than reflective having the meaning of pondering.

[pegembara]

I would say those monks who heard this teaching were both contemplating and reflecting on what was being said.

"So, bhikkhus any kind of form whatever, whether past, future or presently arisen, whether gross or subtle, whether in oneself or external, whether inferior or superior, whether far or near, must with right understanding how it is, be regarded thus: 'This is not mine, this is not I, this is not myself.'

"Any kind of feeling whatever...

"Any kind of perception whatever...

"Any kind of determination whatever...

"Any kind of consciousness whatever, whether past, future or presently arisen, whether gross or subtle, whether in oneself or external, whether inferior or superior, whether far or near must, with right understanding how it is, be regarded thus: 'This is not mine, this is not I, this is not my self.'

"Bhikkhus, when a noble follower who has heard (the truth) sees thus, he finds estrangement in form, he finds estrangement in feeling, he finds estrangement in perception, he finds estrangement in determinations, he finds estrangement in consciousness.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[oak1]

Let objects reflect in the stillness-mirror of awareness and contemplate whatever arises ..

Nice one!

Dear Dhamma brothers and sisters,

Currently I am reading 'The Four Noble Truths' by Ajahn Sumedho and I am having difficulty getting the meaning of the verbs 'contemplating' and 'reflecting'. I associate both with thinking whereas I am reasonably sure that that is not what is meant....

What's wrong with thinking?

Two years ago, I asked the same question I started this thread off with to Ajahn Sundara when I was staying at Amaravati. I can't remember her exact answer but I do recall that it is not just thinking in itself. Reading your replies I would say it is a continuous interaction between reflecting, as in being aware, and contemplating, as in thinking. So, being aware of a sensation, thinking for example 'Is this permanent?', verifying that through awareness and than continue with some other aspect of the dhamma untill everything is fully and completely known.

Thank you for your help!

[_anicca_]

So many great answers!

Contemplation and reflection is like said to be like dropping a flower (thought/observation) into a pool of water (mind) and patiently waiting and watching the ripples that arise (insight). Therefore, these are not active processes like whenever you cognitively try to make sense of something, but rather cultivating and patiently awaiting for insight to arise. In this way, you can't force these states to arise, but you can only set the conditions up appropriately!