Rebirth

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
placebo23
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:03 pm

Rebirth

Postby placebo23 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:20 pm

I'm new to theravada buddhsim in general and I have question about rebirth.
What exactly does it mean when it is said that there is no rebirth after awakening (nirvana). I know (conceptual) from reading that the state of nirvana cannot be described but at least it is uttered that rebirth ends.

At this point, what does rebirth mean? Does it really mean, that there is no new physical formation of a body or are we talking here about the formation of a new ego-sense (a false self so to speak) ?

Or to formulate the question in a different way: Does the "end of rebirth" mean, that the ongoing process of the five aggregates comes to an end ?

Thank you

User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Rebirth

Postby reflection » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:55 pm

Hi,

It means quite literally what it says: that rebirth ends, means there is no more next birth. So no more birth, no more being, no more suffering.

Seems like a very saddening end to a spiritual path, but understanding it is the highest happiness, that's part of why the Buddha's teachings are so hard to understand.

With kindness,
Reflection

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Rebirth

Postby kc2dpt » Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:27 am

It may or may not be worthwhile to point out there is no such teaching of "rebirth".
There is rather the teaching of "again birth".
As in "after death there is once again birth".
And we practice for the end of "birth".

It's maybe a subtle thing, or perhaps no thing at all, but people tend to get confused by the term "rebirth". The word tends to lead one to think there is some thing which is born again. "He died and then he was reborn again." The teachings rather speak in more impersonal terms...

"From clinging as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, and despair come into play.

"From the cessation of clinging comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then old age and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, and despair all cease."

— AN 10.92
- Peter


placebo23
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: Rebirth

Postby placebo23 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:24 pm

Thank you both of you for clarifying the issue.

For the last post I already know that there is no entity which gets reborn. It is merely an ongoing process or to say it in other terms a reoccuring of the five aggregates.

For me it is enough to know if the five aggregates are still experienced after parinirvana or if they come to an final end (in other terms: no new formation of a body).


Again thank you for both your kind replay. ;)

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Rebirth

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:33 pm

Greetings Placebo,

See...

Does the Buddha Exist After His Death?
http://www.budsas.org/ebud/whatbudbeliev/41.htm

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Rebirth

Postby kc2dpt » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:45 am

- Peter


User avatar
Spiny Norman
Posts: 4918
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:32 am
Location: Spam, wonderful spam

Re: Rebirth

Postby Spiny Norman » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:03 am

"My religion is very simple - my religion is ice-cream."
Dairy Lama

placebo23
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: Rebirth

Postby placebo23 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:14 pm


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Rebirth

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:58 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Jason
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:09 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Rebirth

Postby Jason » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:48 am

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

(Buddhist-related blog)
(non-Buddhist related blog)

nibbuti
Posts: 155
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Rebirth

Postby nibbuti » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:54 am


User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: Rebirth

Postby Kim OHara » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:23 am


pegembara
Posts: 1140
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Rebirth

Postby pegembara » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:52 am

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

User avatar
kirk5a
Posts: 1959
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:51 pm

Re: Rebirth

Postby kirk5a » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:20 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Rebirth

Postby kc2dpt » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:37 pm

- Peter


User avatar
reflection
Posts: 1116
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:27 pm

Re: Rebirth

Postby reflection » Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:02 pm


placebo23
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:03 pm

Re: Rebirth

Postby placebo23 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:16 pm

So many posts and my confusion is increasing the more opionions are displayed.
I appreciate the postings of you above but I want to express my feelings here in another way.

I already realized how much suffering there is in life because of its impermanent nature. Over years this observation built into a complex of feelings which in buddhism is commonly called samvega. I find the thought about endless rebirths only to die again just shocking and it creates a strong feeling of dismay that there is a continuation of this process of meaningless life. Even so, as you already stated, there is no entity which gets reborn, at least there is a new existence with endless running around in circles, never truly arriving.

So all in all I see birth as painful and a calamity, with it comes only suffering, pain and endless worries and finally you will lose everything (death).

To know that there can be an end to this really is a solacing message.

Kind regards from Germany.
placebo

User avatar
kc2dpt
Posts: 957
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: Rebirth

Postby kc2dpt » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:14 am

- Peter


pegembara
Posts: 1140
Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:39 am

Re: Rebirth

Postby pegembara » Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:26 am

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

Sylvester
Posts: 2205
Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:57 am

Re: Rebirth

Postby Sylvester » Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:18 am



Return to “Discovering Theravāda”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine