Are Sotapanna, Sakadagami, etc considered to be enlightned?

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Are Sotapanna, Sakadagami, etc considered to be enlightned?

Postby seeker242 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:21 pm

An Arhat obviously is considered enlightened and technically a Sotapanna is "partially enlightened". However, if you are just speaking generally and don't make the distinctions between partially enlightened and fully enlightened, are all ariya considered to be enlightened, when compared to "ordinary people"?

Thanks!

:namaste:
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Re: Are Sotapanna, Sakadagami, etc considered to be enlightned?

Postby daverupa » Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:50 pm

seeker242 wrote:if you are just speaking generally and don't make the distinctions


Why would we ignore distinctions, and then ask "is there a distinction?" It's trying to ensure it finds a particular result, that question is.

To put things simply, we can say that there are common folk - those unexposed or disinclined or at the beginning with respect to the teachings - and then there are learners & adepts with respect to training in the Dhamma. The learners are the three noble stages preceding arahant.

SN 48.53
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Are Sotapanna, Sakadagami, etc considered to be enlightned?

Postby alan... » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:50 am

only an arahant is fully enlightened. however anything below that is still a serious attainment, and those people could certainly teach the rest of us a lot! a sotapanna for example is guaranteed only seven more rebirths until full enlightenment! and so on up to non returning. if you reach one of these you have technically completed the path since they all guarantee final attainment but that doesn't mean you are perfect right after that attainment and before final knowledge.

personally though, if we are "speaking generally and don't make the distinctions" i would consider learning under a true sotapanna, sakadagami, etc. close enough ;)

an example is ananda. he was only a stream enterer (sotapanna) prior to the death of the buddha. because of this he was not going to be allowed to recite at the first council! then he attained full enlightenment and they let him recite the sutta pitaka. if it was all the same more or less they wouldn't have bothered barring him based on not fully being enlightened.
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Re: Are Sotapanna, Sakadagami, etc considered to be enlightned?

Postby Virgo » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:20 pm

The level of enlightenment that these four stages experience is the same. That is to say, the sotapanna, sakadagami, anagami, and arahant, all experienced nibbana. No one of them experiences it any deeper or at any higher level than the other. The difference is the amount of times they have experienced nibbana. The first time (consisting of the sotaapatti maga and phala cittas), only certain defilements are eradicated. The second time, attached and aversion are permanently weakened moreso. The third time, more defilements are eradicated, and the last time (arahatta) all defilements are gone.

So, yes, these are all enlightened folks.

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