Friendship

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Friendship

Postby Tom » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:55 am

I've read that in the Khaggavisana Sutta, it is suggested that we should "wander alone". Was this teaching only meant for specific people, because I'm personally grappling with the idea on whether or not I should abandon my friends, after reading this. Are there any other suttas where the Buddha discusses friendship?
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Re: Friendship

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:57 am

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Friendship

Postby Tom » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:09 am

Thanks for that. Do you think one should abandon non-buddhist friends? If you've ever had non-buddhist friends, how did you deal with these relationships while attempting to follow the path (of the Buddha)?
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Re: Friendship

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:14 am

ccharles wrote:Thanks for that. Do you think one should abandon non-buddhist friends?
Just because they are not Buddhist, no.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Friendship

Postby Tom » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:24 am

tiltbillings wrote:
ccharles wrote:Thanks for that. Do you think one should abandon non-buddhist friends?
Just because they are not Buddhist, no.
I guess I was considering that because of all the talk on kalyanamitta, and "wandering alone". I guess I need to consider this issue more deeply, but it'd be great to see anyone else's opinions on this.
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Re: Friendship

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:59 am

Wandering alone is when one cannot find a suitable, wholesome friend. Kalyana-mittas are good to find, but nothing wrong with non-Buddhist friends as long as the activity is wholesome; for example, if there is a friend you like to play 'a round of 18' holes of golf with, nothing wrong with that or a tennis partner, etc. The discussion could remain on golf, family, or something other than religion. A friend who only wants to gossip or go out drinking (alcohol) on the other hand would be one to perhaps abandon (Buddhist or non-Buddhist).
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Re: Friendship

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:58 am

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Friendship

Postby Ben » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:06 pm

ccharles wrote:If you've ever had non-buddhist friends, how did you deal with these relationships while attempting to follow the path (of the Buddha)?

I married one of my non-Buddhist friends.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: Friendship

Postby DAWN » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:49 pm

Wandering alone - is the best condition.
Joy from seclusion - is the best fruit.

Every body make his choices. Seclusion is for those beaings who have only one choice - freedom.
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: Friendship

Postby Digity » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:37 pm

DAWN wrote:Wandering alone - is the best condition.
Joy from seclusion - is the best fruit.

Every body make his choices. Seclusion is for those beaings who have only one choice - freedom.

I don't agree. I think finding spiritual friends is ideal...although, if that option doesn't exist then it's better to wander alone than to wander with fools.
Samsara sucks.
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Re: Friendship

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:06 pm

Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path. SN 45.2 PTS: S v 2 CDB ii 1524
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Friendship

Postby Digity » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:36 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path. SN 45.2 PTS: S v 2 CDB ii 1524

Yes, I think admirable friends needs to be coupled with seclusion. Having people in your life doesn't exclude the possibility of seclusion.
Samsara sucks.
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Re: Friendship

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:52 pm

Digity wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path. SN 45.2 PTS: S v 2 CDB ii 1524

Yes, I think admirable friends needs to be coupled with seclusion. Having people in your life doesn't exclude the possibility of seclusion.

Again, take a look at this:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... el188.html
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Friendship

Postby DAWN » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:47 pm

Digity wrote:
DAWN wrote:Wandering alone - is the best condition.
Joy from seclusion - is the best fruit.

Every body make his choices. Seclusion is for those beaings who have only one choice - freedom.

I don't agree. I think finding spiritual friends is ideal...although, if that option doesn't exist then it's better to wander alone than to wander with fools.


It's true, but i speak not about physical seclusion but seclusion of mind.
Guarding of six sense doors.

When a bad friend take a place of condition for your mind - it's bad.
When a noble friend take a place of condition for your mind - it's good.

IMO
Sabbe dhamma anatta
We are not concurents...
I'am sorry for my english
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Re: Friendship

Postby alan... » Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:20 am

ccharles wrote:I've read that in the Khaggavisana Sutta, it is suggested that we should "wander alone". Was this teaching only meant for specific people, because I'm personally grappling with the idea on whether or not I should abandon my friends, after reading this. Are there any other suttas where the Buddha discusses friendship?


there is a huge amount of suttas where he recommends friendship! in fact he says it's "the whole of the holy life". now this is taken as a singular event directed at a single person or group of people for each sutta. so don't think just because sutta A says "wander alone" you must do exactly that and because sutta B says "have friends" you must do that. it depends on you, your situation in life, the kinds of friends available and so on. there are different methods for each person.

here is an example, but read the whole sutta and others to get the full idea.

Ananda wrote:"This is half of the holy life, lord: admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie."


The Buddha wrote:"Don't say that, Ananda. Don't say that. Admirable friendship, admirable companionship, admirable camaraderie is actually the whole of the holy life. When a monk has admirable people as friends, companions, & comrades, he can be expected to develop & pursue the noble eightfold path.


"Upaddha Sutta: Half (of the Holy Life)" (SN 45.2), translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu. Access to Insight, 29 August 2012, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html . Retrieved on 24 December 2012.
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