Ven. Sugatavamsa's Introductory Pali course

Explore the ancient language of the Tipitaka and Theravāda commentaries
User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun

Re: Ven. Sugatavamsa's Introductory Pali course

Post by Dhammanando »

SarathW wrote:Now the way I understand Pali does not mean language like English.
Pali refer to Buddhas teaching. (Language was Magadhi)
Do you think those claims are based on that basis?
No. I think they are based on the fact that Buddhaghosa and Dhammapāla were creatures of their age, and their age was twelve centuries before the likes of Sir William Jones and Lord Monboddo — an age when there were no such things as historical philology, comparative linguistics, Indo-European studies, or the scientific investigation of language acquisition in infants. What they have to say simply reflects the state of linguistics of that time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_linguistics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Bur ... d_Monboddo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J ... ilologist)

  • Buddhaghosa:

    But here, as to saying that beings learn a tongue, this is only when it is told them; for a mother and father, when their children are small, lay them on a bed or on a chair and, speaking such and such words, do such and such work. The children define such and such speech of theirs thus: ‘By this that is mentioned, by this that is mentioned.’ As time goes on, they get to know the whole tongue.

    The mother is Tamil, the father is Andhaka. The child born of them, if he hears the mother’s speech first, will speak the Tamil tongue; if he hears the father’s speech first, he will speak the Andhaka tongue. But not hearing either speech, he will speak the Māgadha tongue. And he who is reborn in a great forest without a village and where there is no-one else who speaks, he too, when he creates speech of his own accord, will speak only the Māgadha tongue.

    And in hell, in the animal kind of generation, in the realm of ghosts, in the human world and in the world of deities, everywhere the Māgadha tongue is foremost.

    Herein the rest of the eighteen tongues beginning with the Oṭṭa, the Kirāta, the Andhaka, the Greek and the Tamil, change; only this Māgadha tongue, correctly called the perfect (brahma) usage, the noble usage, does not change.

    Also the Fully Enlightened One, in announcing the Buddha word of the Tipiṭaka, did so only in the Māgadha tongue.
    (Sammohavinodanī 387-8; Dispeller of Delusion II. 128)
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
SarathW
Posts: 21305
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Ven. Sugatavamsa's Introductory Pali course

Post by SarathW »

"Animal kingdom of generation"
Does this mean animal talk Magadha?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 6512
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Mae Wang Huai Rin, Li District, Lamphun

Re: Ven. Sugatavamsa's Introductory Pali course

Post by Dhammanando »

SarathW wrote:"Animal kingdom of generation"
Does this mean animal talk Magadha?
  • Niraye, tiracchānayoniyaṃ, pettivisaye, manussaloke, devaloketi sabbattha māgadhabhāsāva ussannā."

    "And in hell, in the animal kind of generation, in the realm of ghosts, in the human world and in the world of deities, everywhere the Māgadha tongue is foremost."
It wouldn't necessarily imply that all animals speak the Māgadha tongue, because the same thing is said of humans too, and obviously we don't all speak it.

But as to what exactly the commentator did intend by 'ussannā' (translated here as 'foremost'), I'm not really sure. It could mean either that he thought Māgadhan was the language most widely spoken by animals or that it was the best of the various languages that animals speak.
Yena yena hi maññanti,
tato taṃ hoti aññathā.


In whatever way they conceive it,
It turns out otherwise.
(Sn. 588)
SarathW
Posts: 21305
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Ven. Sugatavamsa's Introductory Pali course

Post by SarathW »

Yes I think so.
Crow says Ka, ka
Calf says U,M,BA
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: USA

Re: Ven. Sugatavamsa's Introductory Pali course

Post by Mkoll »

Thank you Bhante.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
User avatar
samseva
Posts: 3045
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:59 pm

Re: Ven. Sugatavamsa's Introductory Pali course

Post by samseva »

Thank you.
SarathW
Posts: 21305
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Ven. Sugatavamsa's Introductory Pali course

Post by SarathW »

I just completed the second and third lessons.
It is very easy for me to understand Pali, as the words are very similar to Sinhalease. (almost 75%)
If you know Pali you will be able to speak Sinhalease very soon as the written and speaking language are very similar.
I was pleased to see that Sri Lankan Plai has been accepted as the world Pali language.
:anjali:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Post Reply