Pali Terms: Cetasika and Kāyika, Nirāmisa and Sāmisa
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:02 pm
Hi Sylvester and Pali friends,
It is described in such a way in Mahasatipatthana sutta:
393. "Katama~nca, bhikkhave, dukkha.m? Ya.m kho, bhikkhave, kaayika.m dukkha.m kaayika.m asaata.m kaayasamphassaja.m dukkha.m asaata.m vedayita.m, ida.m vuccati, bhikkhave, dukkha.m.
394. "Katama~nca, bhikkhave, domanassa.m? Ya.m kho, bhikkhave, cetasika.m dukkha.m cetasika.m asaata.m manosamphassaja.m dukkha.m asaata.m vedayita.m, ida.m vuccati, bhikkhave, domanassa.m.
So the feeling that arises on discernment would be mano-samphassa, and hence cetasika, vedana.
The physical pain has to be endured, but the mental pain is unnecessary, as described in Sallatha sutta:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This classification is evidently identical with classification into the classes of 'nirāmisa' and 'sāmisa' feelings, which is emphasized in the section on feelings in Satipatthana sutta:
Idha bhikkhave bhikkhu sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Sāmisaṃ vā sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'sāmisaṃ sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Nirāmisaṃ vā sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'nirāmisaṃ sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Sāmisaṃ vā dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'sāmisaṃ dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Nirāmisaṃ vā dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'nirāmisaṃ dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Sāmisaṃ vā adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'sāmīsaṃ adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Nirāmisaṃ vā adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'nirāmisaṃ adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti.
The difference between cetasika and kāyika vedanā is one of the keys to Satipatthana practice.Sylvester wrote:It is obvious from the context that here, the meditator is trying to attain the jhanas, and what stands in his way are the defilements. Grief, as a cetasika vedanā flows from painful kāyika vedanā. I take the painful kāyika vedanā to arise on discernment that the defilements atthi (are present).
It is described in such a way in Mahasatipatthana sutta:
393. "Katama~nca, bhikkhave, dukkha.m? Ya.m kho, bhikkhave, kaayika.m dukkha.m kaayika.m asaata.m kaayasamphassaja.m dukkha.m asaata.m vedayita.m, ida.m vuccati, bhikkhave, dukkha.m.
394. "Katama~nca, bhikkhave, domanassa.m? Ya.m kho, bhikkhave, cetasika.m dukkha.m cetasika.m asaata.m manosamphassaja.m dukkha.m asaata.m vedayita.m, ida.m vuccati, bhikkhave, domanassa.m.
So the feeling that arises on discernment would be mano-samphassa, and hence cetasika, vedana.
The physical pain has to be endured, but the mental pain is unnecessary, as described in Sallatha sutta:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This classification is evidently identical with classification into the classes of 'nirāmisa' and 'sāmisa' feelings, which is emphasized in the section on feelings in Satipatthana sutta:
Idha bhikkhave bhikkhu sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Sāmisaṃ vā sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'sāmisaṃ sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Nirāmisaṃ vā sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'nirāmisaṃ sukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Sāmisaṃ vā dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'sāmisaṃ dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Nirāmisaṃ vā dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'nirāmisaṃ dukkhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Sāmisaṃ vā adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'sāmīsaṃ adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti. Nirāmisaṃ vā adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyamāno 'nirāmisaṃ adukkhamasukhaṃ vedanaṃ vediyāmī'ti pajānāti.