MN 135 - help me clear some things up!

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Re: MN 135 - help me clear some things up!

Postby Annapurna » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:22 am

elaine wrote:Hello Bhante, all,

Sorry for the mis-remembered quotes.

Let's say if we have a scenario like this - if someone has only 1 can of soup to give and s/he chose to give it to a genuinely poor person with children who can't find work in a foreign country, than giving it to a temple. Will the "merit" that the giver get be any less than if he were to give to the temple? How do we "measure" the merits from the act of giving? Is there a right or wrong way to give, or the right or wrong place to give?

Do we have to investigate whether the temple is preaching the right Dhamma before giving? If the temple is preaching all the wrong stuffs and we didn't know and we donated, would it count "against" us for supporting the wrong things?


Dear Elaine,

quite rightly you raise important questions: here the issue of needing urgent help.

Let's say if we have a scenario like this - if someone has only 1 can of soup to give and s/he chose to give it to a genuinely poor person with children who can't find work in a foreign country, than giving it to a temple. Will the "merit" that the giver get be any less than if he were to give to the temple?


1. We should not think about our own gain and what we get out of our charity, when giving. Any own karmic 'gain' is decreased through selfish motives.

The highest form of giving is to someone who can never return it, without thinking about our gain from this deed,- such as fame, good reputation, good karma.

True kindness does not count upon nor ask about merit nor gratitude but acts from inner necessity.

2. I would always give to the one who is in more desperate need of quick help and less likely to get it. So, then we have to use independent thinking.

A :namaste:
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Re: MN 135 - help me clear some things up!

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:27 am

Annabel,

Is what you posted something that can be tied to actual teachings/texts that are related edirectly to classical Theravada(, which is a reasonable question given the purpose stated for this particular form)?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: MN 135 - help me clear some things up!

Postby Annapurna » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:29 am

gavesako wrote:In Buddhism it is said that if one throws dish-washing water into a pool where there are insects and living creatures, intending that they feed on the tiny particles of food thus washed away, one accumulates merit even by such trivial generosity -- see A. I, 161.


Without detergent liquid, of course! :jumping:
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Re: MN 135 - help me clear some things up!

Postby Annapurna » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:32 am

tiltbillings wrote:Annabel,

Is what you posted something that can be tied to actual teachings/texts that are related edirectly to classical Theravada(, which is a reasonable question given the purpose stated for this particular form)?


Sure. Do you want me to quote? And what exactly?
My lunchbreak is almost over though.
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Re: MN 135 - help me clear some things up!

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:12 pm

Annabel wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Annabel,

Is what you posted something that can be tied to actual teachings/texts that are related edirectly to classical Theravada(, which is a reasonable question given the purpose stated for this particular form)?


Sure. Do you want me to quote? And what exactly?
My lunchbreak is almost over though.


Whatever will directly tie what you are saying to the sutta and commentarial teachings.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: MN 135 - help me clear some things up!

Postby Annapurna » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:26 pm

Ok. To desire good karma requires a self and desire for a certain pleasant state of being. Desire is a defilement.

If a person is selfless self and has no desire, how can there be a wish for good karma?

So all action would be for the benefit of others. Pure, without being intended as gaining own benefit FOR it, like in a business deal, or expecting own benefit.


:smile:

The Buddhas words on kamma:

From the preface by Khantipalu Bikkhu:

"Good" and "bad" kamma are distinguished by the roots of the actions. What is one's motivating force when one helps the sick? [poor]This is a case where there are various possibilities. Is it just because one wants rich Aunty's money when she dies, or out of genuine compassion? Obviously, in the latter case much better kamma is made.

the Buddha says all intentional actions, whether thoughts, speech or bodily actions, however expressed, are kamma and lead the doer of them to experience a result sooner or later. In this sutta the Buddha classifies kamma into four groups:

(i) dark with a dark result,
(ii) bright with a bright result,
(iii) dark and bright with a dark and bright result,
(iv) neither dark nor bright with a neither dark nor bright result.

Dark (evil) kamma does not give a bright (happy) result, nor does bright (beneficial) kamma lead to dark (miserable) result. Kamma can be mixed, where an action is done with a variety of motives, some good, some evil. And that kind of kamma also exists which gives up attachment to and interest in the other three[ f.i.good karma] and so leads beyond the range of kamma.


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