Buddha and the Upanishads

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Buddha and the Upanishads

Postby clw_uk » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:13 pm

Which Upanishads were around at the same time as the Buddha?

Which ones would he have been aware off?


Wasnt sure where to post this so apologies if this is the wrong section
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Postby Babadhari » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:19 pm

:popcorn:
this should get interesting
Aflame with the fire of passion, the fire of aversion, the fire of delusion.
Aflame, with birth, aging & death, with sorrows, lamentations, pains, distresses, & despairs ......

Seeing thus, the disciple of the Noble One grows disenchanted. SN 35.28
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Postby clw_uk » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:23 pm

kitztack wrote::popcorn:
this should get interesting



lol hopefully

I cant seem to find a concrete answer about which ones, if any, were around when Buddha was alive

We know that the materialist Carvakas were around, as well as the deterministic Ajivakas, the austere jains, and the superstition of the vedic religion, probably a form of samkhaya (pre-theistic/deist/pantheist etc) as well as many other schools of thought

But were the Upanishads, and so a section of Hinduism as we know it?
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Postby daverupa » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:28 pm

wiki wrote:Scholars disagree about the exact dates of the composition of the Upanishads. Different researchers have provided different dates for the Vedic and Upanashic eras. Some authors believe the oldest of these, the Brihadaranyaka, Jaiminiya Upanisadbrahmana and the Chandogya Upanishads, were composed during the pre-Buddhist era of India, while the Taittiriya, Aitareya and Kausitaki, which show Buddhist influence, must have been composed after the 5th century BCE. The remainder of the mukhya Upanishads are dated to the last few centuries BCE.


On a related note, I think the Bhagavad Gita and the Dhammapada are contemporaneous with each other.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Postby clw_uk » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:47 pm

daverupa wrote:
wiki wrote:Scholars disagree about the exact dates of the composition of the Upanishads. Different researchers have provided different dates for the Vedic and Upanashic eras. Some authors believe the oldest of these, the Brihadaranyaka, Jaiminiya Upanisadbrahmana and the Chandogya Upanishads, were composed during the pre-Buddhist era of India, while the Taittiriya, Aitareya and Kausitaki, which show Buddhist influence, must have been composed after the 5th century BCE. The remainder of the mukhya Upanishads are dated to the last few centuries BCE.


On a related note, I think the Bhagavad Gita and the Dhammapada are contemporaneous with each other.



Do you have a link for that quote? :)
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Postby daverupa » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:52 pm

Yes indeed, click the blue 'wiki' word in the quote. Ultimately, it looks like it terminates with the following reference:

King, Richard; Ācārya, Gauḍapāda (1995), Early Advaita Vedānta and Buddhism: the Mahāyāna context of the Gauḍapādīya-kārikā, SUNY Press, ISBN 978-0-7914-2513-8

I think Gombrich discussed this in similar terms in How Buddhism Began, somewhere, but maybe he used the same source...

There may be more detail, and more references, at this wiki link.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Postby Mkoll » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:44 pm

clw_uk wrote:Which ones would he have been aware off?

I don't think we'll be able to definitively answer this question based upon the available evidence.

:anjali:
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James
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:55 pm

Mkoll wrote:
clw_uk wrote:Which ones would he have been aware off?

I don't think we'll be able to definitively answer this question based upon the available evidence.
Given that the Buddha very obviously caricatured the creation myth in the Brihadaranyaka that is a safe bet.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Postby Jetavan » Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:27 pm

tiltbillings wrote:Given that the Buddha very obviously caricatured the creation myth in the Brihadaranyaka....
Could you give a source for this statement?
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Re: Buddha and the Upanishads

Postby daverupa » Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:05 pm

Jetavan wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:Given that the Buddha very obviously caricatured the creation myth in the Brihadaranyaka....
Could you give a source for this statement?


You can have a look at this Gombrich paper, starting on page 13.
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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