deathless element?

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deathless element?

Postby alan... » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:20 am

so we can contemplate the four elements easily enough, but the suttas talk about contemplating the deathless element sometimes as if it's just another element.

i realize "the deathless" is a synonym for nibbana, nonetheless, is there some way outlined to contemplate it other than by reaching it fully through other practices?
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Re: deathless element?

Postby beeblebrox » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:56 am

"Deathless" is a translation for the Pali word "amata." It's in the same construction as "anatta." (The "n" is added to the "a-" prefix before a vowel.)

I think people usually read the "deathless element" as an element which doesn't die... but I think it might be inaccurate.

Another way of reading it might be that it's an element which has nothing to do with death, or doesn't have the "death" as a part of it... just like "all dhammas are anatta" means that these dhammas have nothing to do with self.

"Non-death element" might be a better translation.

That's just the way I see it at the moment... I might be wrong.

:anjali:
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Re: deathless element?

Postby Gena1480 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:16 am

deathless element is what is unborn,unbecoming,uncondition
you study the depending origination
contemplate this / that conditionality
when this arises /that arises
when this cease /that cease
now this two cases are this /that conditionality
for example with arisesing of this becoming /arises that birth.
now for contemplating the unbecoming and unbirth.
when this is not , that is not
when there is, just this no becoming , there is just that no birth.
when there not, what is requisite condition, there is not requisite condition
as you know that in depending origination all are requisite condition
or when there is not requisite condition, there is not what depends on that requisite condition(which is requisite condition itself)
seeing this/ that conditionally
now to see all twelve link of conditioning for what they are much harder as each condition represent different conditioning
if anybody would point me in direction where each condition explain in relation of conditioning itself
because 12 condition are very deep
for example when there is 3 conditions there is contact or the meting of 3 conditions.
metta
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Re: deathless element?

Postby Goob » Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:27 pm

Ven. Thanissaro in some of his talks implies that the suttas talk of nirvana both as an element and as something beyond space and time and that the meaning of this is that even though Nirvana lies beyond it all "it" can still be "experienced" and that this is what the suttas mentioning it as an element talk about.

I could be wrong though.
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Re: deathless element?

Postby alan... » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:40 pm

Gena1480 wrote:deathless element is what is unborn,unbecoming,uncondition
you study the depending origination
contemplate this / that conditionality
when this arises /that arises
when this cease /that cease
now this two cases are this /that conditionality
for example with arisesing of this becoming /arises that birth.
now for contemplating the unbecoming and unbirth.
when this is not , that is not
when there is, just this no becoming , there is just that no birth.
when there not, what is requisite condition, there is not requisite condition
as you know that in depending origination all are requisite condition
or when there is not requisite condition, there is not what depends on that requisite condition(which is requisite condition itself)
seeing this/ that conditionally
now to see all twelve link of conditioning for what they are much harder as each condition represent different conditioning
if anybody would point me in direction where each condition explain in relation of conditioning itself
because 12 condition are very deep
for example when there is 3 conditions there is contact or the meting of 3 conditions.
metta


interesting thanks.
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Re: deathless element?

Postby alan... » Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:40 pm

richard_rca wrote:Ven. Thanissaro in some of his talks implies that the suttas talk of nirvana both as an element and as something beyond space and time and that the meaning of this is that even though Nirvana lies beyond it all "it" can still be "experienced" and that this is what the suttas mentioning it as an element talk about.

I could be wrong though.


that makes sense. thanks.
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Re: deathless element?

Postby Gena1480 » Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:58 am

alan i would like to point you
to the first sermon
about the four noble truth
when the Buddha describes the four noble truth
one of the person listening see the Dhamma
try to understand how from listening to this Dhamma
one has an understanding
as the sutta describes
in one of the disciple
the understanding arise
what ever subject to origination is all subject to cessation.
in other words
that which gives rise to it, gives cease to it
the sutta talk about craving but i would like talk about formation(kamma)
with just this origination(formating) give rise to suffering
but when formed,cessation, end of suffering
it is just this formation that gave origination and cessation
why because they are of the same nature
as for deathless element
when there is not birth(unborn)/there is not of this death(deathless)
as you see that here in sentence above there is no this/that conditionality.
why because there no requisite condition or what is being condition. (that why it is unconditon)
because there is this unbecome,unborn/undeath(deathless) there is an escape from becoming/born(birth)/death.
contemplate what gives rise to it, gives cease to it
metta
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