If you forget where, write Savatthi.

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lojong1
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If you forget where, write Savatthi.

Postby lojong1 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:48 pm

I've heard that in the vinaya, monks are told that if they forget where a discourse was given, they should say it was given at Savatthi. Where is this, and if it doesn't say why, why?

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Cittasanto
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Re: If you forget where, write Savatthi.

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:27 pm

lojong1 wrote:I've heard that in the vinaya, monks are told that if they forget where a discourse was given, they should say it was given at Savatthi. Where is this, and if it doesn't say why, why?

That is in the Mulasarvastivadin vinaya, if I remember correctly, and not in the Theravada Vinaya. But the rule does seam to apply to the Theravadin Canon.
if you get an oportunity to read "Mindfulness in Early Buddhism", by Tse-fu Kuan, London: Routledge, November 2007, it is on page 135-136. Unfortunately it is very expensive.
“Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.
(The mendicants asked) What are the two [types of persons]?
(The Lord Buddha responded) The malicious, or the inwardly angry, and the one with (blind) faith or the one who holds things incorrectly.
Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.”
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
"Others will misconstrue reality based on personal perspectives, firmly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our personal perspectives, nor firmly holding them, but easily discarded."

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Cittasanto
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Re: If you forget where, write Savatthi.

Postby Cittasanto » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:43 pm

lojong1 wrote:I've heard that in the vinaya, monks are told that if they forget where a discourse was given, they should say it was given at Savatthi. Where is this, and if it doesn't say why, why?


The rule if I remember correctly is actually incase a reciters memory lapses and one can not remember the location, or who it was with. it can be one of the six great cities, with a certain hiararchy placed with Savati at the top. or if it was a person, it could be a prominent lay supporter, king, bhikkhuni, bhikkhu, prominent mendicant disciple, or the Buddha himself depending on the role people played would depend on who was speaking teaching ... obviously. As these points are not as important as the Dhamma these can be altered without the meaning being changed, the truth is the truth no matter where or who speaks it.
and that is the point of the suttas, although some important information about context can be contained in the opening sequence of the texts the location and who it was between are not important, the important point is the truth and preserving the path to the truth. the Texts are a map and guide to compare the practice they are talking about with our own experience.
“Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.
(The mendicants asked) What are the two [types of persons]?
(The Lord Buddha responded) The malicious, or the inwardly angry, and the one with (blind) faith or the one who holds things incorrectly.
Mendicants, these two [types of persons] defame the Tathāgata.”
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.
"Others will misconstrue reality based on personal perspectives, firmly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our personal perspectives, nor firmly holding them, but easily discarded."

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Sekha
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Re: If you forget where, write Savatthi.

Postby Sekha » Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:30 pm

see also Analayo's article p.39 note 19, where there is a reference to a paper by Schopen: "Schopen 1997/2994: 395 -407"

http://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg. ... onSela.pdf
Where knowledge ends, religion begins. - B. Disraeli

http://www.buddha-vacana.org


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