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Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

A forum for members who wish to develop a deeper understanding of the Pali Canon and associated Commentaries, which for discussion purposes are both treated as authoritative.

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robertk
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby robertk » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:57 am

Rupa or rupa khandha is best translated as matter, or materiality. A kalapa is the tiniest occurence of at at least 8 kinds of rupa .
Rupa can refer to a conglomeartion of zilions of kalapas or just one type of rupa in one kalapa.
And so when the texts talk about rupa khandha it may refer to any type of rupa, whether past , present or future, inside or outside the body, conditioned by tempearture, or conditioned by citta, or conditioned by kamma.....

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retrofuturist
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:03 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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robertk
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby robertk » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:29 am

Dear retro
The answer is of course B.
I cant think of anywhere explicit though as it is just an assumed fact.
It's like we all know the moon is circling around the earth, even though in daytime we cant see it. No one needs to be told that.

Oh course for vinnana khandha, citta, we have many texts in the Commentaries talking about how in deep, dreamless sleep there is still bhavanga cittas arising and passing, even though there is no direct experience of them.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:35 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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robertk
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby robertk » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:40 am

Thanks for noting this Retro. I will try to look out for anything regarding rupa on this point.

Sylvester
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby Sylvester » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:40 am

In the suttas, both instances of rūpa are discussed. In fact, the sutta conception of rūpa does not seem amenable to an exclusively "material" description. Finite space, it appears, also falls into rūpa.

For rūpa falling under (a), the suttas take a slightly different perspective. Instead of dependance on "experience", the dependance is on phassa (contact).

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mikenz66
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:20 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:29 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Nyana
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby Nyana » Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:10 am


Sylvester
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby Sylvester » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:11 am

Last edited by Sylvester on Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mikenz66
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:47 am


Sylvester
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby Sylvester » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:55 am

I wonder why SN 22.64 and SN 22.94 did not make it to ATI? :stirthepot:

Nyana
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby Nyana » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:52 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 7:57 pm


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robertk
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Re: Khandas, dhatus and ayatanas are real

Postby robertk » Mon Aug 13, 2012 7:53 am



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