Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

Alex123 wrote: To say that mind by day and by night arises as one thing and ceases as another. is far far from talking about momentariness, as some take it to mean, that trillions of cittas rise and fall every second.

Yes, but remember this thread is about sutta support.

Alex123 wrote: I do believe in a sort of momentariness. When we read every letter, then every split second there is different object of the mind - and thus the mind.

Yes, that's obvious by mundane observation. We don't need a sutta to tell us that...

Another aspect of momentariness (in Theravada at least) is that there is only consciousness of one object at at a time. Are there suttas that make that statement clearly.


Mike

Hi everyone,

There seems to be different ways of counting and numbering these suttas at
the start of AN.

ATI has it as: AN 1.48, PTS: A i 10 - Lahu-parivatta Sutta - Quick to Reverse
Itself.

Link: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"I don't envision a single thing that is as quick to reverse itself as the mind — so much so that there is no feasible simile for how quick to reverse itself it is."

Regards, Vincent.

Thanks Vincent!


Mike

Thanks danieLion, Mike, ancientbuddhism, Alex, and vinasp.

robertk wrote:

SamKR wrote:Thanks everyone for your replies and for the links.
Cooran's link to past discussion and the book (thesis) is very useful.

Thanks robertk for Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso which, as pointed out by tiltbillings in the past thread, is a commentary. But I think it is authoritative as it is a part of Nikaya. I hope there might be similar others that talk about impermanence close to momentariness, suttas preferably.

The idea that it is part of the Commentaries and not an actual sutta seems to have come from the translators innocent use of the word 'commentary' when describing Sariputta's exposition. If , in his preface, the modern translator had instead used the word "exposition' it would have been clearer.
So just to stress again, IT IS A SUTTA and not part of the Atthakatha (commentaries).

Thanks, robertk. Nice to know that.

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Daniel,

I don't think that the issue of "being in the present moment" is the same as the issue of "momentariness".


Mike

I don't either. Did you even look at the topic?
metta

Can I add the following from Upacala Sutta:

Sabbo ādīpito loko, sabbo loko padīpito;
Sabbo pajjalito loko, sabbo loko pakampito.

Which is often quoted by SN Goenka to talk about rapid impermanence of sensations.
He translates the second line as "The entire world is burning, the entire world is vibrating"

Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation is: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Though this Sutta is not exactly about momentariness but it seems to be related because of the word pakampito.

SamKR wrote:Can I add the following from Upacala Sutta:

Sabbo ādīpito loko, sabbo loko padīpito;
Sabbo pajjalito loko, sabbo loko pakampito.

Which is quoted by SN Goenka frequently to talk about rapid impermanence of sensations.
He translates the second line as "The entire world is burning, the entire world is vibrating"

Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation is: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .bodh.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Though this Sutta is not exactly about momentariness but it seems to be related because of the word pakampito.

Hi Sam,
I have seen that too, but it was, or something very similar, in the Therigatha.
kind regards,

Ben

Hello Ben,
Yes, the same stanza seems to appear in two places.

Other related words of the Buddha:

"Insofar as it disintegrates, monk, it is called the 'world.' Now what disintegrates? The eye disintegrates. Forms disintegrate. Consciousness at the eye disintegrates. Contact at the eye disintegrates. And whatever there is that arises in dependence on contact at the eye — experienced as pleasure, pain or neither-pleasure-nor-pain — that too disintegrates.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

This world is burning.
Afflicted by contact,
it calls disease a 'self.'
By whatever means it construes [anything],
it becomes otherwise than that [1].

1. In other words, regardless of whatever one bases one's construal of an experience on, by the time the construal is complete, the base has already changed.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html